1. Do not share user accounts! Any account that is shared by another person will be blocked and closed. This means: we will close not only the account that is shared, but also the main account of the user who uses another person's account. We have the ability to detect account sharing, so please do not try to cheat the system. This action will take place on 04/18/2023. Read all forum rules.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Now a Download Plan!
  3. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  4. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant. Do not follow these rules can lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.
    Are you a company? Read our company rules

VR resolution

Discussion in 'VR Headsets and Sim Gaming - Virtual Reality' started by Pit, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,012
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Balance:
    30,433Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,089 / 31 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    Short statement: I got the Nexus 6p this week and I'm impressed about the performance etc. As an addition I tried 3D VR games and apps and I am also very excited about this. But... though my phone has a better resolution than the VR Google's it's less sharp in comparison with my 3D Vision setup. So I am still very happy with my projectors :)
  2. obobo

    obobo Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2016
    Messages:
    248
    Location:
    France
    Balance:
    1,323Coins
    Ratings:
    +77 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Besides, no one has a solution to use the smartphones as VR glasses for our simu
  3. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,012
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Balance:
    30,433Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,089 / 31 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    ?

    PS: my smartphone has a higher resolution than the oculus rift or vive
  4. Blame73

    Blame73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2014
    Messages:
    1,210
    Location:
    Italy
    Balance:
    8,261Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,113 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    You won't convince anybody who already uses HMDs to go back to flat screens, you can convice yourself that a flat screen is better than VR
    • Agree Agree x 4
  5. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    20,894
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    147,080Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,854 / 54 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    VR is a bit more complicated when it comes to screen tech.

    Resolution is only one measure of a VR display and even that is debatable compared to traditional notions of resolution, as the image is warped and then unwarped via the lenses, to allow a screen so close to the face and rendering over a full 360 sphere. Other important VR screen measures are subpixel configuration, pixel spacing, refresh rate, persistence, refresh type, pixel change response time, pixel on-off delay, colour accuracy, brightness and finally lenses.

    With VR how much of the screen pixels are used makes more sense than the actual screen resolution. Hence there is some advantage to the dual 1200×1080 panels used with the Rift and Vive.

    Warping has significant effects. With traditional lenses the visual trade off is chromatic artifacts, with Fresnel lenses the visual trade off is god rays, to a greater or lesser extent, but a much bigger sweet spot of higher rendered resolution. Lens focal length also affects 3D rendering quality somewhat.

    The displays of the Rift and Vive are 90hz, way over a mobile phone. The Rift also have global update and improved pixel coverage, the entire screen flashes at once instead of scanning over each row or column, as part of the screen door effect is the space between pixels. So higher resolution does not mean less screen door, it just makes it more likely that there is less space between the pixels.

    Most mobile VR is rendered at 1080P and upscaled, while the opposite is all the rage in PC VR, using supersampling, which provides a higher perceived resolution.

    The Rift and Vive also have positional tracking, which is what helps make the VR worlds feel so solid when you move in it.

    For all the wonders of first gen VR screen technology, lenses and software manipulation, it will likely be up to 5 years before VR has a perceived image quality of 4K screens. One of the biggest challenges in getting there is real time eye tracking and Foveated rendering, where only what you are looking at is rendered high resolution.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
  6. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,012
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Balance:
    30,433Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,089 / 31 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    @noorbeast of course there is not only the resolution we have to discuss but it is ONE point I determined at least. A further negative point is the weight of the VR. Next I tried to push my buttons on the button box (while sitting on my seat / rig), even I was not able to find the big escape button.
    The best experience I did so far was sitting in the battleship of Elite: Dangerous. If you are familiar with joysticks like Saitek X52 Pro etc for sure there is much fun.
  7. Blame73

    Blame73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2014
    Messages:
    1,210
    Location:
    Italy
    Balance:
    8,261Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,113 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    I paste here two lines taken from Race Department where Rsr updated their Formula Renault to v.3
    http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/rsr-formula-3.8040/updates

    "I would like to share with you a nice story. At the end of June, Omicron Motorsport team was in Spa Francorchamps for their F3 cup race.
    I’ve invited them to my place for a nice dinner and to try out the replica of their car on my rig with the Oculus Rift.
    Jacopo wanted to try the car on the normal monitor first, as he was used to at home, to get accustomed to my rig and to better appreciate the difference with the Oculus.
    I was driving quite well, but he was still missing apexes and braking points and overdriving the car sometimes.
    Then he put the Oculus on, and something incredible happen (well...after 15 minutes standing still in the car full of ooohhh…. woww...that’s my car...ohhh...this is incredible...loooook I can see the Omicron logo on my driver suit...loooook...I’m here at Spa again. Look this is just like being in my F3 this morning…)... well...I was saying...something incredible happen. Immediately from the very first corner he nailed all braking points, corner entry, corner exit, no more mistakes, no more going off track, no more weird reactions.
    Jacopo comment after his session sum it all up: “I was driving a simulator on a pc before. Now I’m driving my car!”
    I’ll never forget that sentence. That alone is the best reward for our work, and a great recognition of the effectiveness of a VR system like the Oculus Rift CV1."
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,573
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Balance:
    28,370Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,844 / 39 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    AC motor, Motion platform
    I agree with this 100% from driving my sim in VR (DK2 to CV1) for quite some time now - for something different I decided to mount my old HD screen onto my rig - well it felt totally wrong and I could hardly drive the car and was missing all my braking points etc. IMO - Even with all its current issues, VR still leaves a flat screen for dead.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,081
    Location:
    Wollongong, NSW, AU
    Balance:
    3,796Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,379 / 4 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    No way I could go back to flat screens on my Sim now.
    I used to have a triple screen setup and the TrackIR that worked very well, but VR is another level. DiRT Rally out of VR is just unplayable for me now.

    It's not all rosy in VR world, though. I rarely play P3D anymore simply because, even with Leap Motion, the need to use your hands in a cockpit is still needed, and when you have the Rift on, you simply can't see the outside world. It's early days and I'm sure this will improve, but until "touch" is integrated into an exo-skeleton hand or a glove and the accuracy becomes pinpoint, anything needing Interaction with limbs is still lacking.
  10. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    20,894
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    147,080Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,854 / 54 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Same here @SeatTime, despite some of the current gen VR limitations I am significantly faster in VR and immersion wise for me VR is a whole other league.

    That said first gen VR is not for everyone for a range of reasons and can't match hi-res screens, so it really is a case of each to their own in what works for the individual.

    I have my HOTAS mapped @Archie, as I found the same thing with the Leap, the tracking is just not robust enough, though it is a taste of what to expect with virtual cockpit manipulation. Voice Attack is a real alternative option and in my view worth the investment, plus it can be used for any flight or race game.
  11. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,081
    Location:
    Wollongong, NSW, AU
    Balance:
    3,796Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,379 / 4 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Voice Attack looks interesting. I'll need to check that out. Thanks for the heads up @noorbeast

    As awesome as the HOTAS is, mapping the flight deck of an A320 Airbus to it sucks :)
    Not to mention, the FMC is the main device you need really. The pilot is the true passenger on a modern airliner ;)

    EDIT: WOW! How cool are the HCS Voice packs! I can be immersed in Red Dwarf!

    Anyway.. off topic...

    "As you were..."
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
  12. Tomsix

    Tomsix Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Németország
    Balance:
    324Coins
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    Arduino
    • Informative Informative x 2
  13. f1iceman

    f1iceman Why So Serious ? ( The Joker )

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    838
    Location:
    UK
    Balance:
    817Coins
    Ratings:
    +391 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, SCN5, SCN6, Motion platform, 4DOF
    can not go back to monitor i have tried and its nw dead to me vr rules big time and its imporoving more and more upping pixels n graphics tweaks and game and drver updates come very quick.
    its an experience in a world nothing touches that atm noit even a pretty picture to play on.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    20,894
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    147,080Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,854 / 54 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    I would advise against this, as it is not even close to a comparative experience and substandard VR can have significant side effects, including making people feel ill and setting up negative psychological associations.

    The VR community is pretty small and many like to show off their VR tech, plus there are VR demos available in retail stores now, so best to test the real thing.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,012
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Balance:
    30,433Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,089 / 31 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    I got the daydream working on my Nexus 6P and as a results of this the phone is very impressive. Clear and crisp details, fast working display, no tearing and a 100 ° fov. It's great for looking into the world of VR.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Tomsix

    Tomsix Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Németország
    Balance:
    324Coins
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    Arduino
  17. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,012
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Balance:
    30,433Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,089 / 31 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
  18. shannonb1

    shannonb1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,107
    Occupation:
    Sales Intelligence
    Location:
    Virginia
    Balance:
    8,909Coins
    Ratings:
    +598 / 5 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, AC motor, Arduino, JRK, 4DOF
    Ive had beamers and I have had triple 27's. The loss of clarity is an ok trade off for me when compared to the immersion factor gained. Apexing corners or standing outside of the car or looking down over the side of the cockpit window cant be replicated without an HMD, and yes I had track-ir and while cool, its not the same.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,012
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Balance:
    30,433Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,089 / 31 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    I do not use my p6 for racing simulations ;) It's only for trying out the VR, still preferring my 3d vision LED projector setup. When the times comes for buying one VR set, I will do so. But not before VIVE/OR version 2.0.
  20. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,159
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Michigan USA
    Balance:
    9,188Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,160 / 19 / -1
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    My wife and I are in Chicago for a few days; there is a microcenter (huge geek store) here. I had the opportunity to try the Vive for the first time. I was blown away, a little grainy but incredibly immersive.

    I bought one.
    • Like x 3
    • Agree x 1
    • Funny x 1
    • Winner x 1
    • Informative x 1