Request (Feature) Remark regarding the DIY Free License requirement

First of all, I want to make sure that what follows won't be taken the wrong way, as I absolutely love Simtools and fully understand that the developper(s) have to be paid for their work.

SO here is the reqson for this post: I think there is something not logical in the DIY Free license requirement, and I'll use my own situation as an example.

Right now, I am in the process of deciding whether or not I will be building a full size 6DOF motion simulator. Before I invest a lot of the money and time in the project, I want to do some testing using a scale model based on 6 RC servos. As stated in the requirement for a free license, I do NOT qualify for a it. I can obviously use the demo version of Simtools, which is great by the way. BUT, it only works with LFS.
In my case, I want to use flight sim such as X plane 11 and DCS, so I need to pay the full price of a DIY license to be able to test that.
That basically means that at that stage where I spent around 50 € of hardware (RC servos, linkage, etc..) I am gonna have to end up paying the full DIY License, that I might not even be using in the future if the conclusion of my test is a no go for the full size project.
And if I decide to go for it, I'll buy the hardware, open a build thread and therefore I will qualify for a free license but unfortunately, I'll have one already so that will be useless.
And to be fair, at that stage of the project, where you have to put a few thousands euros in hardware, the cost of Simtools is negligeable.

And again don't get me wrong, I would be more than happy to pay for the license ONCE I know that I am going for the full size and because I know that the license price is only a small fraction of the total cost of the project. Right now I am a bit reluctant in having to pay the full price fot a license if I put it into perspective compared to the price of my current hardware (scale model onlym meaning a ratio of roughly 50/50

Hope you get my point. My suggestion for this would be a play time limited demo version (say 15 Minutes) but available with all plugins (or make it so that a scale model also qualifies for a DIY free license )

Thanks for reading and keep up the good work

I understand where you're coming from but it is what it is. But you need a paid licence to get game dash and simvibe functionality so a diy license is kind of worthless anyway imo. I think that's by design since the original diy only Simtools included game dash.

@BlazinH
I understand your point of view. In my case, at least for now, I don't need Game Dash or Vibe functionality but it might change in the future. I think what I am gonna do is purchase a DIY for now, and upgrade to a pro one later on if needed.

@noorbeast
Yes, I fully agree the LFS fully fonctional plugin is great for testing and I am glad this is availble for free really.
Now one last quick question. I know there is an option to go for a DIY license to a PRO license for 29,99 if I am correct. Does this apply even for a free DIY license ? or someone who had a free DIY license has to pay the full price for a PRO license ?
Thanks

Hey @FoxONe42 - the only real reason I can come up with for not getting your money's worth out of a paid license is if you decide not to build a sim. I bought a Pro license since I wanted Game Dash for wind and have never looked back.

Even if you don’t build a motion sim, things like Game Vibe and Dash can really up enjoyment and immersion just with wind and vibration/rumble simulation and no motion at all.

Check to see if there are plugins for what you like to run, though, and that they support wind since not all do. I believe that’s similar for Vibe functionality too. I still haven’t converted to Vibe and just use audio for vibrations so no actual eperience with Vibe yet.

@noorbeast
Very clear thanks

@Zed
I am not sure I fully understand how Game Dash and Vibe can be used. My understanding is that Vibe is to be used with a butt kicker. And Dash is to exctact simulator data, am I correct ? I am curious to know how you did with the wind, did you simulate wind with a fan or something, and fan rpm was linked to wind speed ?
I am currently using a Gametrix Jetseat which is also a great additon for better immersion.
ANyway I hear what you are saying and I am more and more convinced that I 'll jump in a start to build the full size eventually anyway, so I'll probably go for the DIY license initially and the purchase the upgrade eventually. I am also hoping that a reverse kinematic functionality will be available with Simtools eventually.

@noorbeast
Thanks for the useful links

From my point of view game dash is essential thus my earlier opinion. Once you enjoy wind simulation you don't want to go without. I've been doing wind simulation before game dash was even available with software you could get here before Simtools.
Anyway it's great so many are doing it now because when game dash was released I constantly begged for speed to be added to plugins mostly to no avail because I was the only one. So I had to keep using the old software for quite some time until game dash grew up.

@FoxONe42 - yep - two axial flow bilge fans. I bought my setup from @Avenga76 back when I was just exploring this stuff. Now I see how easy it is. The Sea-Flo bilge fans are 4" so for a more compact install I mounted them vertically and used 4" elbows to turn the wind horizontal. The fittings on the ends are flow straighteners with a simple honeycomb vane pattern in them.

As others mentioned, Game Dash just exposes various sim variables and provides an interface to control things based on those variables. In this case it is an Arduino with fan control software and a Monster Moto shield that controls the fan speed with a PWM controller.

Wind is great for sims especially if you like open cockpit cars and aircraft. Even for closed cockpit flying and driving, I still use wind - just with the variable divided down a bit so the effect isn’t near as strong, but in VR the breeze is welcome. What I'd love is for airplane sim plugins to expose the canopy open or closed status to crank the fan speed up when you open the canopy but that’s dreaming. Some sims don’t even expose the speed variable like @BlazinH mentions.

@yobuddy
I had in mind 15 minutes play time as this is what you have when you use the Xplane 11 demo for instance, but I agree with your remark and got a DIY license a couple of days ago anyway. It is such a great tool and even with a scale model platform it is fun to see it move the same way the aircraft is moving in the sim. But the more I interact with you guys, the more I am convinced that I should go for the full size.

@Zed
Interresting project indeed. I had never thought of that since I mainly fly helicopters doors off, but I confess it could be an interresting additional feature for later. And I do fully agree that a nice breeze in VR is very welcome

Thanks,wondered what the extras were for.

I feel your pain. I couldn't seem to get SimTools to do anything towards an Arduino. I cant even get it to read the sharedMemory iRacing allows. After a ton of f**g around I had to go back to 1994 in my PASCAL days in high school and study up on my C++ and accomplished data communication via the iRacing SDK. I am nowhere where I need to be since the mathmatical equations are already built in simtools but I am a dirt track racer from Indiana and only wanting the rear traction loss effect. Not interested in spending $2K when i know i can build it myself with some R&D for 1/4 the cost. After all, I have a real race car to put parts on most of the year. Anyways, I see you were thinking on the Hexapod and I found a nice piece of software that wont work for my purpose but should suit your needs. http://bffsimulation.com/6DOF-Motion-Software.php You may already know of this but thought I would throw it your way if not. Didnt have any pics of the Sim Rig I built last winter but its similar to my real one minus axles and motor. Even tossing around the idea of doing more motion vertically on real torsion arms which twists the torsion bars. Now I really think that would make a sprint car feel like the real thing because you dont feel a ton of minor bumps and the bars are "lazy" compared to coil springs. Well Im rambling, good luck on the build. By the way, Go Big or Go Home!....haha

I have tried about every piece of code posted on here. Only I am using a stepper and driver which isnt closed loop. I am still playing with SimTools on my secondary PC at work which is basically same build as my gaming PC. I just used the iracing SDK to verify Im not missing something stupid. I can capture the live telemetry, now how to manipulate it into useful data will make me give up. I never said anything bad about SimTools at all, in fact I have been a member for a few years and love the builds. Gave me ideas on what I wanted to build. I never really planned on a motion sim because I figured I would spend a ton on AC 3 phase servos. These NEMA 23/34 Steppers have came along way. In fact I run an AccuForce V2 wheel which i know is a closed loop stepper. I plan on using Simtools when I can get my stepper running fluidly. (it is very powerful and fast with SpeedyStepper and Accelstepper) I just cant get it to do anything using the test mode via simtools. I know i can get data from irsdk and motor responds at this point but i have no algorithms or any knowledge on my next step, i guess you'd say... I started with 1 motor and driver to see if it has the torque before I bought a ton of crap. Looks like Im going to have to end up going closed loop. I have a 2000ppr encoder on way and maybe ill be able to use some posted code with minor adjustments. Or at least that is the plan.

I didn't think my issue warranted a post on the forum. I can usually sift through other peoples quesitons/answers and use the internet to gain the knowledge I lack. I was just agreeing with the gentleman's concern. Being able to try out the software to make sure it doesn't interfere with other things running like oculus, discord, pandora, iracing, simcommander, voiceattck, DRE, VRS, etc. I do appreciate your quick response on my issue though. Comes across a bit condescending but im sure it wasn't intended that way.

Well I am making progress and purchased a PRO license for SimTools. I think the major issue is in the serial interfacing. anytime I used another arduino with different code and COMMs change the change never seemed to work within SimTools even after closing and reopening. So I did a clean install with and only created 1 serial interface. Seemed to do the trick.