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traction loss - slow break out, fast return

Discussion in 'SimTools DIY Version' started by Pit, Nov 9, 2014.

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  1. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    Hi all (again :) )

    I am posting a video soon, traction loss (TL) is working like the hell, but not as well it could be. Please can someone help in puzzling out how to set up SimTools to get TL in a certain way working:

    1. ) Car is breaking out. This should happens slowly, consequently the motor should move slower.
    2.) Car ends traction loss and stops breaking out, the motor must go back very fast back to the center.

    Now it is a mix of all.

    PS: I have 3,5" or 9cm available on each side for TL.

    Thanks for help.
    • Creative Creative x 1
    Pit, Nov 9, 2014
    #1
  2. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    @Pit
    May I ask how exactly do you have yaw setup?
    Are you using extra1 from a plugin or are you using only yaw with washout on?
    yobuddy
    yobuddy, Nov 9, 2014
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  3. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    I am using extra 1. Should I try something different?
    Pit, Nov 9, 2014
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  4. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Well you can adjust how fast the extra1 (breaks out) by altering its max min file.
    The return rate should be able to be set by turning on washout.
    And then (how much it takes to break free) point can be set with the deadzone filter.

    alternatively, you could use the strait yaw value instead of extra1.
    set the yaw return rate with the washout filter.
    And then set the (how much it takes to break free) point can be set with the deadzone filter.

    Both ways are designed to work.
    But to be honest, at the time I wrote the filter for washout, no one was using it.
    So some fine tuning may be required in future releases.
    Please try both and let me know what you think.

    yobuddy
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    yobuddy, Nov 10, 2014
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  5. bsft

    bsft

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    try setting each force on the traction loss individually and play a game, test and re-test till you find which one it is.
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    bsft, Nov 10, 2014
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  6. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    Traction loss is a tricky beast to get set properly. Too much and its Chaos on your normal Driving line. Too little and its hard to feel when you need to really feel it.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Nick Moxley, Nov 10, 2014
    #6
  7. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    @yobuddy, So does extra1 use the yaw value for traction loss too? If not, what value out of a game is used on extra1 to simulate traction loss?
    BlazinH, Nov 10, 2014
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  8. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    @BlazinH, without getting to complicated, the traction loss is a formula made up of the inputs from the game.
    It is not just the Yaw value, and therefore both ways could be used for traction loss.

    With some feedback from you guy's from trying both ways, I believe we can tune it in a bit more and make both ways easier to setup and use.

    yobuddy
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    yobuddy, Nov 10, 2014
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  9. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    I think I worked it out. Axis 3, Extra1, 100%. Smoothing 1, DeadZone 5, Tuning Center 3.2 (max, min). SMC3 very low Kp, very high PWMmax. Now the rig is breaking out mostly when the car does and the moves are very linear. Video will follow soon.
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    Pit, Nov 11, 2014
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  10. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    wow thats a Low Tuning center # for Extra1. Im at 18-20 pending game have you watched the Tuning #'s while "in motion"
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
    Nick Moxley, Nov 11, 2014
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  11. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    It is to bumpy and slippery to watch the tuning center while driving :p.
    Pit, Nov 11, 2014
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  12. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    Do you have the "skidpad" track on AC ? I used that a lot for reference on the traction loss, the Big Turning circle's work good for seeing how the body weight/body lead and tire weight transfer all feels.
    • Informative Informative x 2
    Nick Moxley, Nov 12, 2014
    #12
  13. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    noorbeast, Nov 12, 2014
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  14. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    I see @yobuddy. I personally like complicated myself because I get into details. However, I understand if you can’t share more.

    But, from what I can tell, without having traction loss on my rig, it appears it may be necessary to make adjustments for each car depending on its breakaway point? I think if the breakaway point is early or delayed even a little, it won’t be a very useful feedback. Knowing more may help in understanding how it needs to be set up to work correctly. But in the end it’s probably just a matter of trial and error testing anyway.

    It would be nice though if developers supplied a flag or something that would signal when tire slippage starts; like when the tires start screeching. Then we could use the yaw or yaw acceleration rate to do the rest after that!
    BlazinH, Nov 13, 2014
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  15. RufusDufus

    RufusDufus Well-Known Member

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    @BlazinH based on my early involvement in the traction loss testing... my understanding is that it is calculated as the angle between the motion vector of the cars physical movement and the vector the car is actually pointing in. I believe the values in the tuning center for traction loss are typically in degrees.

    So I found to get a good result, I set the Tuning center values (degrees) to match the degrees of swing each way my traction loss rig has and then set the scale in the axis assignment to 100% (or whatever matches full movement of your traction setup). It also seemed good to have some smoothing applied but not too much. If you want to exaggerate the traction loss then you can reduce the tuning center values.
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    RufusDufus, Nov 13, 2014
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  16. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    Thank you @RufusDufus for the information. The method you described sounds a lot more accurate than attempting to use yaw alone.
    BlazinH, Nov 14, 2014
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  17. Blame73

    Blame73 Well-Known Member

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    Hey @Pit I'm looking forward to seeing your video of TL in action.
    Blame73, Dec 30, 2014
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  18. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    • Like Like x 13
    Pit, Dec 30, 2014
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  19. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how i didn't post this here :confused:

    • Like Like x 5
    Nick Moxley, Sep 7, 2018
    #19
  20. Arielnac

    Arielnac Member

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    Hi. Why does it mention SMC3 if when you use simtools, SMC3 doesn't work. SMC3 is only for testing.
    Arielnac, May 31, 2020
    #20
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