Getting Started

• For quick drawings to check geometry for example I prefer SketchUp. And as mentioned by eaorobbie, you can connect SimTools to your SketchUp model and animate it.
• Solidworks is also very nice, because you can do some calculations (e.g. momentum, inertia). But you'll go through a learing curve…
• Then there is also MotionPlatformDesigner, which is dedicated to calculate the engineering part.

Thanks to ALL.
I can't get the kangaroo to work with SIMTOOL, eveny my PC says USB device not recognized one USB devices attached this computer has malfunctioned, and windows does not recognize it.
So i don't know what to do with my project (2 wheel chair motors 24V)
I was thinking to get Xsim but can't get from anywhere.

Have installed the describe software and drivers.

No, i didn't know is it need software!!!! where can i get the describe software and drivers??? Thanks

Thanks

Hey Brighton, the download link for the DEScribe software is here
http://www.dimensionengineering.com/describe
You will want your pots hooked up to measure motor movement and connected to the kangaroo along with your limit switches before auto tuning the kangaroo as it makes it much easier.

http://imgur.com/a/jbgZU#3 here are some pics of the quick test rig I made to check motor movement and software connections. A more in depth kangaroo hookup is shown in the manual but I could take some more pics for you if it would help.

@StebanJigs thank you so much.

Hi guys, I connected everything alight but my computer sill not recognising the kangaroo and when i am trying to connect the kangaroo with DEScribe software, it says; no rerial ports are connected. to continue, please connect on.
So guys thanks for you help but i still don't know what to do, to get the kangaroo recognined with my PC. Thanks

What usb to ttl converter are you using, and are the drivers installed ? Is the Kangaroo connected S1 Tx, S2 Rx 5v and Gnd

If so try using a different usb to ttl converter.

regards Terry

If it is the ttl converter given out to the first 100 kangaroo customers its the same one I have "DELink 2" there Is a good picture of how it hooks up in the "DEScribe" software manual right at the beginning. Ill take some more close pictures as to how mine is connected later tonight for you.
Edit: http://i.imgur.com/Em8vUk1.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/TQ79ogK.jpg

Also in windows go to "Control Panel" then go into "device manager" and in the "com" tree tab make sure your describe2 device shows up, if not there might be a driver issue.

HI guys Thanks for help.
i did hook up all the wire alight and i look in device manager i don't see the DEScribe, what i can see is (Unknown device)
The drivers are installed and i am using USB cable comes win the kangaroo. Thanks

You should see DeLink as the usb device in the device manager, you need to load the drivers for the DeLink usb ttl converter.

The Describe sw tool is used for setting up and configuring the Kangaroo.

regards Terry

just notice you dip switch settings on the sabertooth are wrong to doc on dimension Engineering site, sabertooth should be set to 1 = off and 2 = off and 3 -6 should be on
? Dont know might be the issue why its not running.
When I can afford one , have the kangaroo already and the usb adapter , just haven't had the spare cash to buy a sabertooth, so i can test it myself.

@eaorobbie, yea that's what I thought when I looked at the pics I took, but they actually are 1/2 off 3-6 on, the shadows are bad in that pic.


As for why it isn't seeing the DELink2 is odd, on windows7 when I plugged it in the first time it detected it and loaded the drivers for it. Hmmmmmm I'll keep brainstorming here.

Hello everyone. I have been a long time follower of this forum. It's great to see you are getting new software developed to call your own again! I decided to become a member at this time because I feel I have some knowledge that might benefit other members and I would like to contribute if possible. Also I wish to contribute here because of positive helpful people that already contribute here on this site.


I know a little about working with syrens and sabertooth controllers that may help to get simtools to work with them. I also have a kangaroo. While I have not experimented with it yet, I have studied the documentation on it.


Let me first tell everyone the pros and cons of packet serial vs. simple serial on a controller


Packet serial is the most powerful in the terms of options and has the most accurate transmission method as it uses a checksum to verify the correct packet was received. This method requires several bytes of information to be transmitted however before it acts on it. This is because the controller needs an address byte, a command byte, a value byte, and a checksum byte before it can act. The pros of packet serial are as follows. You can access up to 8 controllers with one USB to ttl converter. That is why you send an address byte, to select which controller to access. The command byte tells the controller what action you want to take (i.e. 0 = motor1 forward, 1 = motor1 backwards). The value byte is self-explanatory but it cannot exceed a value of 127 for a controller in packet mode. Then a checksum must be calculated from the combination of the bytes. Packet serial also has a speed resolution of 7 bits that allows 128 speeds possible in each direction including stop. The cons are that it is more complicated to implement than simple serial and that you have to transmit several bytes of information vs. one byte. You must also calculate a checksum, which takes more time. Since sims need the fastest program loop possible, even though packet serial is the most powerful and reliable, it will add much more processing time so it may not actually be the desired method! I also see no way of it working with simtools without a plugin.


The pros of simple serial are that it is the least complicated to implement and the fastest method since it only requires one byte to act. The cons are that it will act on corrupted data as it has no way to determine if the data is corrupted or not (however, proper shielding of USB converter wiring to the kangaroo and keeping them away from any strong magnetic fields should yield satisfactory results). You can only access one controller per USB to ttl converter (however you can use multiple converters if you need more that one dual motor controller but simtools will likely need a plugin to do this also). The speed resolution is half of what packet serial can do so you only get 64 possible speeds in both directions including stop buts that’s enough for smooth operation. However, it should work with the standard USO output from simtools for 2DOF sims. But this is useless without any motor feedback.


That’s where the kangaroo comes in. While the kangaroo works much differently than the controllers do, the pros and cons of packet vs simple are about the same. Packet method would still require a plugin and multiple bytes to be transmitted. But I believe simtools should work with simple serial quite easily when using only one kangaroo. I think the USO should be set as follows: 1,p<Axis1><10>2,p<Axis2><10> where <Axis1> = Axis1/(65534/5000) and where <Axis2> = Axis2/(65534/5000). This is with the kangaroo set to position mode, with analog feedback (5v pot), and simtools using 16 bit output. With 16 bit output in simtools the center position is 32767. If you plug that into my formula above you will have <Axis1> = 32767/(65534/5000) = 2500 which is center position for the kangaroo when 5v = 5000 units. The 5000 in the formula above is assuming your pot will output the maximum 5v. If not take the maximum voltage you can get out of your pot and multiply it by 1000 and use that value instead. Remember that the kangaroo must be tuned first though before it will work. This may be a problem however because proper auto tuning will require the seat or platform to be weighed to the normal operating weight. This could lead to another problem, that being that while auto tuning the system may make some fast-acting and erratic movements that could be dangerous to a human and also could overstress the mechanical abilities of your sim thereby possibly damaging something. It looks like manual setting of the values normally filled in by auto tune is possible but there is not any documentation about how. That being said, if you can get past this point there are still a couple of other settings that must be made (I think). While auto tuning will possibly set the deadband for you, I don't think it can set the exponential setting properly if at all. The kangaroo documentation states that when using position mode that the system will move to the set position as quickly as possible. This probably won’t give the desired results if it is like turning a switch on and then off again when it’s to the called position. You need speed control as well because when the PID error is small you don't need as much top motor speed as when the error is larger. This is what the exponential slider is for in the describe software. When set properly it will increase the top possible speed as the error widens which should yield a smoother acceleration. I think it will just take some experimenting with different values until the desired result is obtained for your sim.


Well that’s about all I have for you at the moment so I hope that some will find this information useful in their quest to get their kangaroos working with their sims. Remember though, I have not actually tested a kangaroo myself yet and I don't have simtools. Good luck.


p.s. Beware as some of Dimension Engineering’s documentation is incorrect or omitted in places and I haven’t seen an attempt to correct even major errors! I informed them of one error where they stated the wrong method to change the baud rate for a controller. It cost me hours of my time with nothing in return, other than a headache LOL (over a weekend when I couldn't call them). They didn't apologize when I did have to call them to get the correct information! But they do seem good about exchanges however. Which reminds me to tell all who are having problems with their Delink2 that the one I got came with a faulty micro USB cable. If you plug in the Delink2 and don’t get the Install New Hardware window then it's likely either the cable or the controller that’s bad. That reminds me that the Delink2 documentation doesn’t tell you where to get the drivers either. I guess they just assume that you will install the Describe software. Their product and customer service has been great so far however. They replaced two controllers that burned up on me without a hassle after over a year. I have even talked with the owner of the company. Just don't believe everything you read! If you can't get it to work, call them!

Thank you so much BlazinH, your information sheds some light on the subject, Thanks, once I have my Sabertooth I can work it all out or may be even create am interface plugin as it might be a lot better. The main reason i choose to research this driver was to create an alternative to using the slow outdated K8055 and this would give a cheap controller rebuild for some one transfering over to Sim Tools. If there is a local Aussie who has one i could borrow would speed things up, if not I have to wait till im working again.

Hi eaorobbie. You may have noticed that I made a slight error in that 65534 should have been 65535. I try to be accurate even though it doesn't make a difference in this case. I didn’t completely understand the kangaroo units command when I posted earlier but now I think I have a better way. Set the units in the Describe software to, for example 1, units 65535 positions = 5000 millivolts. Then all simtools needs to do is send out raw 16 bit data to the kangaroo. The kangaroo will do all of the required math now.

I think if a safe way is found to do proper tuning, and setting the exponential slider will allow proper adjustment of the speed acceleration, it will be a real winner and extremely simple to use for a 2DOF sim. Once proper tuning is done, a file can save the tuning data and like sims should be able to use it, at least for a good starting point. That way others don't have to auto tune if it turns out to be dangerous. Slight manual adjustments could be made to individual sims once we get a grip on how to adjust the "Positioning" settings in the Describe software. And the 2x60 sabertooth is a monster if anybody needs that much power. While I have burned out 2x50 sabertooths and some syren50’s, the 2x60's have been rock solid. In fact the fans on the controllers don’t even start up. Take care.

Thanks guys for your help.
My window 7 says: Windows has stopped this device because it has reported problems. (Code 43)

Ok looks like we have our first 16bit device , did you catch all that Stebanjigs, would like to confirm that works.