Issue with Windows 7 networking and Simtools recognition

Firstly apologies if this has been answered elsewhere already ... I searched the forums and couldn't find any topics along these lines. I've also spent 5 hours searching google but am running low on ideas.

Secondly I know this is not a Windows 7 helpdesk but I cannot believe I'm the first person to have come across the following problem between Simtools and Windows 7 and I'm wondering if others have a simple solution.

I'm running the 2 computer version of Simtools (GameManager on the game PC and GameEngine on the motor PCs). I've connected the computers via crossover ethernet cable direct to the ethernet cards. The network is running fine - I can see the two PCs and can transfer files between the two.

I'm running Windows 7 Home Premium on both PCs. The problem lies with the different network settings.

When I run the computers in the 'Home network' setting AND set up a 'Homegroup' between the two then GameManager will connect to GameEngine. Life is good.

However, if the PCs are in 'Public Network' mode the PCs can't join a Homegroup and I can't get GameManager to recognise the GameEngine, without a Homegroup present, regardless of what I try - I've turned off Firewall, antivirus and allowed everything to share between the two computers. I can still use the network between the computers but GameManager remains 'Not Connected'. The only difference that I can see between the settings for my Public and Home networks is the Homegroup that is running in the Home mode.

I know this sounds like a simple fix - just run the computers on a Home Network with a Homegroup - BUT Windows defaults back to Public Network every time I turn off the computers. Because the crossover cable doesn't have a DNS address it is therefore an 'unidentified network' and there is no setting in Windows Premium to automatically run an unidentified network as a Home Network (Professional and Ultimate have options but not Premium). Obviously this is a sensible in general - but not when I want to connect two PCs that will never go near the internet or any other PCs.

What this means is that every time I start up the motion platform I will have to go into network settings in both computers and change from Public network to Home and then connect them to a Homegroup. What's more I'll need a monitor and keyboard attached to my motor PC (that I certainly wasn't planning) because I can't change the network settings over a Public network.

Can anyone tell me whether they've had a similar problem with Windows 7 Premium and, more importantly, whether they found a fix?? Many thanks in advance!!

Thanks for the replies guys. It's good to know that others have it up and running on Windows 7 Premium without issues so it must indeed be a problem with my network settings. I think part of the problem in the middle of the night was wondering if I was struggling with a problem that didn't have a solution.

I'll get rid of the Homegroup and undo all the changes I made to try and get the things working - including registry changes - and try again with the settings in noorbeast's article. I've had a quick look through it and can't see that I've done anything grossly wrong but I'm looking at the 'prefered DNS server setting' and wondering if I've made a mistake there.

Anyway, I'm at work right now so I can't try it yet, or send my network settings, but I'll be in touch tonight, either way, to let you know it worked or to post my settings.

Kind regards,
Thurston.

Case closed with MUCH thanks to noorbeast and yobuddy!! 5 hours of midnight frustration finally over!!

I'm afraid the problem simply comes down to my lack of confidence with networking (I've never been good at it) and therefore blindly following tutorials on the net for Windows 7 networking rather than knowing what I'm doing.

The link noorbeast supplied was for Windows XP and Vista (not Windows 7) but it was spot on the money. Every Windows 7 networking tutorial that I found recommended leaving DNS server as detect automatically - even for direct PC to PC network via crossover cable. The spiel is that the new Homegroup feature will take care of everything. To be fair the Homegroup feature does work - it allows simple connection to share files between two computers without needing to go in and change IP and DNS information - but the leaving the DNS server address as automatic results in Windows detecting the crossover cable as a Public network which seems to restrict Simtools somehow - even when everything was changed to make the Public network share everything identically to a Home network. The other problem, as detailed previously, is that you can't save the settings to keep the cable as a Home network - you need to switch it from Home to Public each time the computer reboots.

Anyway, changing the DNS server did the trick. The network was recognised immediately, Simtools connected instantly and Windows even followed up with the creation of a Homegroup that allows manipulation of all features of the network. Everything works and, more importantly, everything is saved as is when the computer reboots.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the above is blatantly obvious to everyone other than myself and that this post does nothing but highlight my stupidity, BUT, just in case anyone else is as stupid as myself and stumbles across this post, the following are the settings that are working for me. I think it's important that both computers have the same Workgroup name for this to work (but I could be wrong about that as well). If anyone has more specific questions, and doesn't want to out themselves as a moron like myself, then send me a mail.

Thanks again guys. Very much appreciated.

Cheers,
Thurston.


Gaming PC Settings


Motor PC Settings

Ok well Simtools I am learning but Windows networking is my strong point. Actually your post was quite informative. I actually have a MCSA (certified sys admin) and I didnt know that the lack of DNS forced the network location back to public

This link explains what public mode blocks so no wonder you were having issues:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-au/windows/choosing-network-location#1TC=windows-vista

"The “Public place” location blocks certain programs and services from running, to help protect your computer from unauthorized access while you are connected to a network in a public place."

Personally I dont use Homegroup, I do it the old school way (method used up to Windows Vista).

I don't know enough about Simtools and certainly haven't tried running it from a second PC but I am a little suprised that you would even need to bother setting up a Homegroup etc. As long as the Game Manager computer can detect the Game Engine computer IP address, then that should be enough in theory. Simple ping test could be useful but I don't know exactly how these programs talk to eachother and what port is used etc.

Keep in mind that most programs (especially running at the services level) that talk across a network do not require file sharing to be enabled between both PCs. They do however require an open port on the firewall on both PCs.

Public mode makes computers less discoverable on a network so that was most likely your issue or possibly the programs being blocked by firewall (public mode has stricter firewall).

Hey Mark,

Many thanks for your kind words. I'm glad my stupidity and frustration served as a learning tool for others!! I fear this may be my sole purpose in life

You are absolutely correct that Homegroup is NOT required - and, as far as I could work out, actually gets in the way if you want to create a permanent connection between two PCs via crossover cable. Not using Homegroup and doing things the old way of modifying IP and DNS server addresses is definately the way to go.

The problem is that ALL of the Windows 7 networking guides that I stumbled upon suggest the use of Homegroup. I guess, because it is a new feature, every computer site felt the need to run a tutorial on how to use it so the first 20 pages of Google espouse Homegroup networking - "Hey, you just plug in the two computers and Homegroup pops up and does the rest. All you need to do is type the same password into both PCs!!" And, as I said previously, it does work and is a perfectly reasonable solution for quickly sharing files between two computers. But, I couldn't get it to turn into a permanent solution between two PCs. It keeps resetting to the less useful "Public Network" setting. Even with hours of searching about Windows 7 networking problems not once did I see anyone suggest returning to the old Windows system and modifying the TCP settings - until it was suggested here by noorbeast. Windows 7 guides are all about Homegroup.

However, to be brutally honest, the problem really isn't the fault of Homegroup or Microsoft. The problem is someone trying to set up a network whilst being completely clueless about networking. Watching me trying to create a network is akin to watching a monkey squashing a bananna into a powerpoint. I can weld and solder and build my own computers (snap the pieces together like lego) but networking has always been my nemesis. Given your background I think it is impossible for you to comprehend how confused I get about networks. I don't know the difference between Homegroup and Workgroup. I have no idea what the boxes next to IP and DNS mean - to me they are just 4 password boxes that need the correct numbers punched in. The IP addresses of my network has always been 192.168.0.1 but noorbeast's guide used 192.168.2.2 ... so I got worried about not following the numbers on the guide EXACTLY. I have no idea what changing the gateway and DNS does. I am literally following every single step of internet tutorials - with a lot of typos because I need to keep my fingers crossed while I work.

I know that the above admission may have people bashing on their keyboards about my ignorance and the fraud of such an imposter stumbling around the world of motion platforms. Surely I shouldn't be attempting a motion platform knowing so little about computers and electronics. And, I've got to say that up until very recently this challenge would have been absolutely impossible for someone like me. But thanks to a lot of hard work by a lot of people - especially this Xsimulator community - I've almost done it. For the past few months I have been walking in a snowstorm of my own ignorance and just following footsteps of giants who have left me a literal step-by-step path to the summit. I am VERY appreciative of their work to get me there and absolutely recognise that without them I would be lost.

I know everyone is probably thinking that even now - even with all the tutorials and instructions - the challenge facing me is impossible. Well I'd like to encourage anyone who would like to give it a go that it is very possible. I'm a few steps from the summit and this networking problem was really the first hiccup along the way. I did get a few early questions answered by earobbie but, since then, it's been a fairly smooth process of just chipping away at a lot of simple jobs and this has been the first time I've had to ask for assistance. Hopefully it is the last!!

To date, I've welded the frame together and into position on the cv joint, installed the seats and controls, connected the motors to the frame, connected the pots to the motors, hooked up a power supply and soldered them all onto the jrk. I've patched together a motor and gaming PC from old parts and connected up the jrks. All software has been installed and is working. Every single one of the above steps worked first go just by following instructions. And, now that this networking problem is solved, I'm at the point of working my way through the steps listed in the Simtools documentation before I see if everything will light up when I flick the switch. Hopefully it's only a couple more hours of work ... although working with your fingers crossed always takes longer than you expect.


The Platform


The PCs and Motors

I also build PCs with my eyes closed but I would glady swap some of my networking skills with your soldering/welding skills LOL. And if you ever feel the desire to know what those numbers next to IP address and DNS is, I will glady explain, its really not that bad.

I am coming at Sim Tools from a totally different angle. I am not mechanically minded and don't have metal fabricating skills etc. IT hardware/sofware/networking stuff is what i do for a crust and am learning Simtools/Arduino to help a friend/client who is mechanically minded and will actually construct the seat and motors etc.

Right now I am stuck at trying to make Simtools Game Engine talk to the Arduino IDE program. Lots of happy times for me ahead no doubt

There is several codes here on site where you can get the bits that you require mate.
My RC Model code shows an example of how you can achieve this , plus most of the motion code does it in simular ways too. Need a hand just ask mate, that's what we are all here for.