Tronicg 6 DOF - Professional Grade - 5000.00

Cost , safety and ease of building is why I stand firm on DC Motion for newbies to DIY Motion.

Sorry most AC movements are way too slow, but impressive in weight carrying.

Only warning I tend to give people who wish to use 240v , please, please be careful the last thing I want to hear on the forum is a sim builder has been admitted to hospital because of electrocution, my only fear some newbie might kill himself from 240v recommendations.

Hire an electrician then...
http://motionsim.freeforums.net/post/110/thread







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Flippant answer for a DIY forum!

Lets deal with with. DC power is not as much efficient as many think. If that was the case, Edison's DC electricity would still be used instead of Tesla's 220v 3phase power that is used worldwide to power everything! Even your smartphones needs that 3phase power distribution system as without it you would not be able to charge it...

most simulators with AC motor are slow, I agree with that, but why?
becaufe most of use reducer too slow!

30 rev / min is a minimum I think
for the linear speed of approximately 400mm / s

Many make the mistake of putting a ramp acceleration and deceleration, which makes the delay and removes small effects, smooth.

This isthe PId that deals with this, so we must remove the ramp, the vibrations are much better!

Safety is well imortante.

you must respect the safety rules, but nothing difficult.
differential circuit breaker, fuse and earthing.

AC motors are industrial motors, they can run very long.

I also include the interest of the DC motor can be more accessible to DIY.

but for the moment we see that small engines and lightweight simulator.

it gets complicated for more power and more expensive too.

My simulator has engine 0.55kw reducing 16TR, I operate so 100Hz 30 tr
torque is 330Nm

it's been a whole DC motor powerful enough how are you doing?

at what price?
engine / gearbox / power board ....

I would change can be, after seeing a simulator equipped like that.

I would like to react on vibrations:
we must also stop the obsession with vibrations!
in a real car, the vibrations are not as present in the games!

again as I said, adding a butckicker advantageously allows complete engines.

as a speaker, a boomer is not high frequency Treble!

I adapt this concept to the simulator, powerful engines for / small medium large displacements
and BTK for vibration

once the two in action, you do not know who does what!
it's just perfect.

sorry, my mistake...not your sim....

ok ok, I admit defeat, we went through all this on the "other" forum.

I would love to build a powerful AC powered motion sim, but could never justify spending that much money, (would be more than $5K for parts in Australia - Wife would kick my a##). Although I'm still very happy with my 5 motor DC sim especially with the Oculus Rift.

The only reason we use AC power in homes and business today instead of DC is that DC does not travel well over long distances where AC does! AC is easily stepped up and down also where DC is not. AC can therefore be stepped up to a higher voltage where it can be more easily transferred over long distances. The ability of AC to work this way makes it a lot cheaper to distribute power vs DC, thus why it won out over DC. So yes, AC is more efficient at traveling over distances, but as long as we don’t mount our DC power supplies and batteries a block or more away from our simulators, it is not a problem! Here is a whole wikipidia article on just this subject so you can better inform yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Currents

Also, that’s the first time I’ve heard that smartphones run on 3phase AC power! Lol. What's your point @tronicgr?

You need to charge your phone with DC voltage yes, but you tap that energy from the AC power network. Unless you are into using solar panel to charge your phone. lol

I'm not understanding all this talk about AC power distribution networks - what has it got to do with building a SIM? I completed my electrical apprenticeship too long ago at a Dockyard in Sydney Australia where the whole place ran on DC. We had lathes that were 4 stories high. Also my son is into RC car racing and the power output of the brushless DC motors that he uses is just amazing. But irrespective of all this I built a DC based sim because it is simpler and much cheaper to build compared to a AC equivalent - the ease of transmission or even efficiency was not relevant.

Theres been considerable discussion elsewhere in the pros and cons of AC motor sims over DC motor sims, and this will not end in a hurry.
We have all made comparisons between the two, regarding ease of construction, availability of parts, expertise in wiring up, coding, weight lifting power etc.
We have stated on both sides the differences in control boards , speed of motors, power, performance.
The original discussion was that there is a 240v 6DOF for sale.
I mentioned that also 12v units are being developed as well and have not gotten any further due to people lives and commitments.
It then got into comparisons, again between AC and DC motors.
If you are happy with DC motors,use them.
If you are happy with AC motors, use them

discuss, exchange, share ideas and points of view, it is the fuel of DIY projects
this can be done without any thought behind.
without defending a manufacturer or another, regardless of the software, the electronic card ..... just by passion and knowledge

Actually, I charge mine this way!

It’s a bit of a hassle to hook up every night before bed though!

But since the debate we were having was about using AC motors vs DC motors to power our simulators, I’m still missing the point you were attempting to make with your cell phone charger analogy @tronicgr.

I assume we can agree though that a 1hp motor is 1hp regardless of whether AC or DC is used to power it? If so then there is no need for further debate on whether one is more powerful than the other. The debate is really only over costs, difficulties to implement, and safety factors the way I see it.

Here’s a quick rough estimation I made based on what I could find available for purchase now for just the basics to add motion:

Comparison of Costs: AC vs DC for 6dof

AC DC

Motors X6 $900 $1800

Gearboxes X6 $900 $900

VFD/Batt & Supply $900 $425

Motor Controllers $0 $600

Electronics $540 $170
ac includes $400 thanos card
dc includes 3-sabertooth 2x60
AC=$3240 DC=$3895

(Sorry, unable to fix formatting)

Note: I don’t know if that is the correct price for a Thanos 6dof VFD controller card but that figure was posted by another member.

So it appears that DC will cost a little bit more than AC for a 6dof (unless you can pick up some really good deals on DC motors), but not by much. But in return, you will have an electrically safer rig, and not have the hassles of implementing VFDs with your AC motors. However, when using lower voltages over higher ones, whether it AC or DC, one must use smaller gauge wiring (which is a larger wire) to handle the higher currents. Extra cooling of some components may be required as well due to more heat created by higher currents! When using larger DC motors such as 1Hp, I strongly recommend it be with 24vdc or above. A 24v system will need 10 times the current of a 240v one but that’s a lot better than 20 times more that a 12v system would need. So, for comparison purposes, a 6 motor 240vac system will need around 19 amps available to run it. A 24vdc system would therefore require 190 amps. But that is why automobile batteries (with over 500 cc amps available) are used in parallel with a power supply/charger; the batteries will keep an ample supply of current available at all times for the motors and the 100amp supply/charger will keep them topped off or mostly so. Of course, one down side with a system using batteries is they only last a few years and then need to be replaced.

Here is a good read on the comparison of the characteristics of AC and DC motors if you have a little time and like details. http://www.reliance.com/prodserv/motgen/b7096.htm But if not, this was the conclusion:

Just to throw a spanner in the works, @Historiker was putting together a 12v boat winch motor 6DOF, and I think it will be started again once he finishes building his home.
As I am not arduino familiar, 6 JRKS would do it.
@eaorobbie tested his winch motors when he had them and he got 200kg lift per motor no problem.
Theoretically, that 1200 kg.
Winch motors are around the $100 each mark. x 6
JRK $100 each. x 6
Thats $1200 so far.
Maybe $400 for steel frame?
$600 for rod ends, extra bits and pieces, cheap pots?
$2200 for 6DOF with a couple of car batteries to start you moving?
Or PSUs at $50 each. x 6
That $2500 up to now?
And thats a possible frame that will lift 1000kg.
Granted it would be a noisy bastard of a thing with those winch motors howling.

I want to see these engines that lifts 100kg
speed and torque?
$ 100?

I seriously doubt.
I can see where these engines?
you have a link?

necessarily with less powerful engines, the cam lever arm will be small.
A 6DOF simulator with little travel has no interest.
except performance to achieve it.
I greatly respect the work.


how do you separate the effects of 6 axes?
take into account the low travel, you divide by 6 for 6 axes and combinations, there is nothing, not feel the differences in the effects.

then the inertia of the simulator.
inertia will further slow down the speed of the motors.

short, technically this seems imposible to make a proper 6DOF with small engine.

but I want to see the videos.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/I-MAX-12...=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5afe5a642c . I recall @eaorobbie put a 120mm long lever on one of the gears and got sufficient speed to rattle his teeth and lift 200kg on one arm.