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bsft Thanks for the donation most appreciated

And I immediately start with a rant.

What's with having users to earn coins to download plugins? If you want to sell them then you can just sell them. That's perfectly understandable marketing policy, many follow it, and it gives (false) sense of choosing what to pay for exactly, rather than paying extra for things you wouldn't need. Having people to messageflood on forums seems to be a way to earn money on ads, but I dunno about this, I use adBlock and I never see any ads. Honestly, I would rather just paid to get the software. I understand there's a "Gold" account but damn it costs more than iRacing subscription. Not that any motion sim owner wouldn't have that money if they had money to build a motion sim, but still. Right now my working season is almost over and therefore I'm running really low on spare bucks so I couldn't right now purchase it - that'd be another two weeks until I get my money. And I couldn't see how it works either besides testmode because I'd need a game plugin first. You would think that since LFS preset is included, LFS plugin is also included, but no, apparently.

EDIT: LFS does works actually; silly me, you have to patch the game because it doesn't works out of box. I thought it would since LFS explicitly supports telemetry.

Anyway I think of building a powerful sim. I'm not really into that stuff this far so I don't know what its type is called, but it's a gymbal-like 2 DOF system, like this one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/3DOF_motion_simulator.png I want that thing to be no less hard than hydraulically powered 301 rig. I'm going to use 1.5 kW industry motors to drive it, at 3000 rpm nominal speed that should be sufficient to move the cassis at 300 rpm with over 2000 Nm worth of torque. I have trouble though figuring out exactly how would I drive 220 V AC motors. (you would think those are expensive but no, just about $80 for brand new). With arm length to the mass centre of about 1 meter and loaded weight of slightly over 100 kg, that should suffice to hold gymbals in horizontal position AND lift them higher up if necessary - it would be able to create accelerations of over 1G. This gymbal build allows to simulate both sway and roll effeciently, as well as surge and pitch; given that driver is highly off rotation axes, rotaitonal acceleration will additionally create sense of acceleraiton in counter-rotating direction, making up for lack of gravity-induced sense of acceleration at low angles, and it will also be able to simulate hard hits on the sides (if you "scratch" a wall), not so much on the front or back though. It can to some extent also simulate traction loss, which is by nature the same as sway except with yaw, but since yawwing is little it doesn't add up all that much. It's completely incapable of simulating heave though and that kinda bothers me, since the sim is just doomed to be imperfect, to resolve that issue I'd have to deploy some really unfitting mechanisms like putting the seat on a rails. And it's also will be huge and take up half the room, and noisy, so WAF is through the floor (good thing I don't have a wife).

Seriously overambitions project for a beginner.

Boy such a wonderful attitude for a first post, should make lots of friends, not.
The idea behind the coins is to promote participation in the community and not just having a lot of leaches appear, download everything then disappear. I think its a great idea. If your impatient then you can buy some coins which helps pay for the cost of running the forum, brilliant.

Eh I don't really care for amount of friends on yet another random forum, I'm not even going to actively participate. But at least I can create threads immediately after registering without having to punch in a dozen of two meaningless posts, like on some other forums. Or can I? I don't even want to create a thread so that's irrelevant anyway, so never mind any of that.

The idea, yes, seem to be smart, but I disagree with this approach. Having to earn coins to download things (to buy them) through forum activity and presense of ads suggests that it's about earning money more than anything else. Also, people tend to overstate the importance of such things as forum karma, number of facebook likes, and I beleive this raises destructive beginning in people over those digits. It may also raise creative beginning, but it usually then falls into oblivion. This isn't the case for all people by default, but for what I can tell, it is the case often enough. Not having them, on the other hand, absolutely does not hurt. As a new owner of a certain forum, I'm planning to remove those ratings completely. Former head removed negative ratings, only leaving positive, and for this exact reason - that alleviated the issue somewhat but it's still there basically.

> source of some really excellent motion simulation software and the repository of expertise related to motion simulation
This is basically how I see it. I still don't agree with the method of choosing for encouraging people to participate. I beleive that the only true motivation for people is their own will to do it, and such measures should not interfere with that. I know first hand that development and maintenance takes money, however I don't run any ads, I pay for the hosting out of my wallet. This situation is not really about ratings, coins and other things like that, it's about that for this kind of website it's simply... I dunno... inappropriate? It should be just a plain forum, not a video game. Is all.

By any chance, do you happen to have ideas how to force the Rift to work with motion sim of high travel magnitude? Low magnitude makes very little issue obviously, but if your rig can roll 50 degrees then that becomes a problem because the Rift assumes that you're always in upright position. I beleive there should be according mode in the Rift Tracking Service that would accept positional and rotational displacement data and add it up to Rift tracking data. Rift is an excellent fit for motion sim rig, however as of right now it's hardly usable due to aforementioned issue.

It was implied that the camera would be mounted on the rig, but it should be possible to mount it to the building. The problem with this is that there's in fact a whole 3 different horizons with motion sim and frame mounted camera: one is in-game horizon which is bound to the vehicle frame, the other is camera horizon which is bound to the motion rig, and third one is gyro horizon which is bound to Earth horizon, and when the rig comes into motion they quickly fall apart. There is also two 2 different coordinate systems: in-game coordinates and rig coordinates. If camera is mounted to the rig then they're basically the same, but otherwise this also needs displacement compensation.

Thanks for the link, this seems to be it, and it does it in effecient way - by simply telling the Rift tracker to offset the values.

@raidho36 your planned project, or rather the link you provided looks like its based off this
http://www.acesim.com/main.html
The coins system is there to obviously stop spamming. People come on site and just post up what they would like to build and ask questions, then in no time, they may have enough coins for the package. No money spent.
I agree people would rather spend that extra cash towards their project as well.
Also, some people are more polite than others and then they might just get given some coins.
Back to your project, I suggest you start a new thread and transfer the information there to keep it off this section.
I also suggest you dig through the threads and have a look, there may be a similar project in action that you are trying to achieve.
And as for your comment about not making friends, step carefully. Some of us understand where you are coming from, others will not be so polite in responding to you.
If you are unhappy with the coin system, I can tell you now, the "other" software is at cost as well even though it says it is not.
Regards, David.

@bsft Actually, I did not based my yet-paper project on nothing - I figured it out by myself when I was thinking about common issues with simple motion simulators and this is a way I resolve them without drifting into $50k price range. It just happened to be the same as one of the common projects. But what I have thought is also slightly different.

>others will not be so polite in responding to you
I'm common to places where strong stream of personal insults with minor degree of argumentation in it or with complete absense of thereof is a standard widely accepted way of conducting a dialog. Can't scare a shark with an alligator.

>The coins system is there to obviously stop spamming. People come on site and just post up what they would like to build and ask questions, then in no time, they may have enough coins for the package.
I didn't exactly get what you're trying to say because that's just basically a two mutually exclusive points. Also, I did not made an argument about not spending any money, I'm perfectly fine with making a purchase. It's just this sort of freemium with minigames to me seems very inappropriate model for a website that trying to make money on software aimed at serious hardcore audience (and not the software itself which is free).

>Back to your project, I suggest you start a new thread and transfer the information there to keep it off this section.
That was instead of introduction which would be absolutely meaningless in realities of internet, and it was tangentially picked up. I will make a thread once there's anything to show off, which isn't soon. That's a valid point though.

@RaceRay

But that's not the case - I'm not doing it for coins, I'm doing it because it's worth doing it, because discussion is worth conducting. As I said, I'd rather make a purchase than bother with having to force myself to write a bunch of posts for coins.

I don't exactly get this. I mean your audience is not a bunch of schoolboys who have to make their purchase using saved lunch money. Many run sims like DCS, X-plane, iRacing, etc. which are known for their "harsh" marketing policy, making those games very expensive. Not to mention that sims are not cheap - you'd have to spend a lot of money to get even cheapest type of build. Next to that spendings, a potential price of the software woudln't be any consideration. In a mobile game I'm working on I do aim such audience so the game is free but offers cheap IAPs as a monetizaiton measure (no ads though, those really are annoying). To get better appeal of a public that isn't willing to spend any money, IAPs made as a "fast forward" button, but not to extent that doing it on a regular speed is insufferable. While IAPs are cheap, in order to utterly dominate using them you'd have to spend a lot of money, which invites the small fraction of players who are rich to spend some big buck. I don't offer paid customization because only a small percentage of people ever bother with this and it's not worth taking time implementing.

By the way I already have a bunch of "complaints" or "fix requests" (whichever way you like it best) about the software and as a programmer I know it should be absolutely no problem fixing it, but I'll lay out out later.

@raidho36 , you have a LOT of nerve having a go at the site admin. he is doing a great job keeping things in order and he relies on the like of myself and others to help along simulator builders starting out. If he doesnt comment that often, so what? hes a site owner.
You have also contradicted yourself and the possible purchase of a package for downloads, you are now stating that you would rather pay money to get the download package, when first you complained it costs more than a iracing membership.
Get your facts right!
Every other new member whom has come onto this site has politely introduced themselves and started asking the right questions, not just rip into the "coin" system like you have.
Go and look at the other software sites and see how much you end up actually having to pay REAL money to get working software.
If you dont like it here and obviously you are not concerned about making "friends" well guess what, why should we help you then.
before you decide to comment on my posts and or the amount of coins I have, I have given out more than 3000 coins to deserving people to help them along. No chance with you
I suggest you go and get "follow procedure" and take your information elsewhere.

The force of entitlement is strong with this one

pardon?

A Yoda type comment about the sense of entitlement many people seem to have these days
It is strong with raidho

Yes i have a weird sense of humour

copy that

@bsft
>If he doesnt comment that often, so what?
I never complained about him not answering often. Considering that it's the first time I talk to him, I don't even know where you're coming from with this.
>you have a LOT of nerve having a go at the site admin
Why wouldn't I? Just because I'm not in best pals with that person? Don't be silly, it's just an internet.
>*le following lashout*
Man, what's up with that? I wasn't going to accuse anyone of nothing. I'm not gonna make a lot of friends here sure, if you gonna freak out like that at every innocent thing. Calm your tits, bro. Listen to this tune here and chillax.


@MikeG
Care to elaborate? I always welcome argumented criticism. I have to note though that with conjunction of @bsft 's note about the nerve, that almost reads like a subtle implication that when talking to @RaceRay I must feel underprivileged and behave accordingly, which to me is a nonsensical thought. I hope this isn't what you wanted to say.