help needed for FFB in home made wheel

hello,
New here and hope this is the correct area for this thread.
currently only using a home made wheel/pedal system with no FFB which is controlled by using the circuit from a standard type game-pad.
plan on building a better system to include FFB which hopefully can be done by using the data supplied using SimTools.
First off before i even decide to start the design, i have many questions, as to get an idea of the type of possible FB actions that can be feed back into the wheel, even worse is that I’ve never used a FFB wheel so haven’t a clue as to how they feel.

1)the first obvious ?, is it possible to use the data from simtools etc to create realistic FFB on a wheel ?
due to never having used one, what type of FB is felt ?
2)when running over ripple strips,
3) bumps on tracks,
4) when turning,
5) is there more resistance when steering at slower speeds.
6) does resistance increase when trying to steer quickly.
7) do any have a FFB brake system.
8) does the motor or some other type of system return the wheel to centre ?
photos of the current crudely built monstrosity will be uploaded as soon as the film is developed and scanned.
updates will be posted as the build progresses, unless it ends up being cheaper to purchase a decent wheel.

Thanks.

ouch, that’s way out of my price range, glanced over the thread and don't even know if it's uses data from the simtools program.

As games steering column forces are not extracted, you could only build a fake fancy FFB wheel.
But it's a challenging and fun DIY project!

Serious DIY steering wheel are based on boards (LPC1768 pack, disco STM32...) which are programmed to be seen as USB HID device.
Then the board read Direct input information sent by the game to windows. Straight and forward!

Have a look here http://www.racingfr.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=46898
and here http://www.racingfr.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=47981

yours
Mat

Thanks Mat,
will be looking into it and hope to understand the system, though would still like to know if it's possible to use Simtools for the FFB system.

Today, steering column forces are not extracted from games into Simtools plugins

but our plugin developpers @value1 @prilad @eaorobbie may perhaps participate to the debat and give you further informations.

It's an interesting topic, I have been trying to understand how FFB steering works for the last few weeks. It seems there is an increased interest in this topic of late, I assume as a result of the opensimwheel project.

The opensimwheel while sounds great is also beyond what I am willing to invest in a DIY FFB wheel. I wonder if it is possible to use some of the concepts together with cheaper motors and controllers to get "acceptable" results that are better than the standard G27 though?

From google translating details from the opensimwheel sites I think the "MMOs" software loaded on a STM32... board gives you a USB device that appears to windows as a standard FFB Wheel (even looks like you can easily add pedals and button boxes).

What I can't work out is what the interface to the servo controller is... whether it is just a force and direction signal (PWM and DIR) or something more complicated?

If it's just a force and direction then I would assume it is possible to put together a low cost version of the servo controller - how good the results would be I have no idea.

@RacingMat, are you able to interpret any of the MMOs info to determine what the controller interface is?

@RufusDufus : you have 3 modes available
PWM 0-50-100%
PWM & Dir
PWM left and right for H-Bridge

I'm usingPWM 0-50-100.
Yes you can simply add buttons and pedals and handbrake.

A bit of history, the first modern DIY servo steering wheels have been made on racingfr.com by Mizoo in 2011
Tutorial: http://www.racingfr.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=46898

Before opensimmwheel project, there were a dozen of DIY servo wheel on RFR

Great thanks Mat. I still don't fully understand what the VSD-XE is doing? If it is being used as a servo controller isn't it positioning the motor - in which case is the PWM a position signal, or is the PWM a Power signal like we have on our sims?

Does the position feedback from the motor go to the VSD or the CORE407 controller?

If the output of the Controller is PWM (power) and DIR can you use a MOTO Monster H-Bridge and DC Motor like we use for our sims?

I'll keep using google translate with the sites you have provided and see what I can work out.

yes, VSD is the servo driver.
the feedback position goes back to the STM32 via the VSD.

please come on the forum and ask your questions (even in english): many people could answer to you more details!

I may need to test a FFB wheel to actually find out what they are like.
Was speaking with someone at a computer store about FFB wheels and he mentioned they just basically apply an opposite force to the direction of turn, Is this true ?

If it is, it would not be far off using a spring on the wheel.

this guy should be avoided!

Mat, hope you meant the salesman at the store and not me,

if it is me i'm sorry for the confusion, just trying to understand the technical side of how the system works before being able to finish a design that will be posted.

yes! the "computer store" salesman of course

the effort is not proportionnal to angular turn: when the wheels are sliding, you have the same angular turn but no more efforts
it's much more complex

you can investigate DirectInput for example