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6 Dof project

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by 187baran, May 23, 2015.

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  1. 187baran

    187baran New Member

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    Hi
    We are planning to build 6 DOF motor powered motion platform.

    What to look for when buying motors.

    And please someone who did before can review the progress of building for us.

    thank you
    187baran, May 23, 2015
    #1
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Welcome @187baran.

    A 6DOF is an expensive and complex rig. You want to really know what you are doing before committing significant funds and time into what is a complex project.

    A good place to start is testing your ideas with a working model, you will learn a great deal from one: http://www.xsimulator.net/community...o-driven-model-to-test-your-design-ideas.136/

    Have a look at these project threads for inspiration, do a lot of reading and planning, and ask plenty of questions:

    @Leandro Tercette just got his 6DOF platform working with SimTools last night: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/hi-all.6900/

    @SeatTime is creating his own carbon fiber actuators for his rig: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/seattimes-4-5dof-dc-build.6106/
    noorbeast, May 23, 2015
    #2
  3. 187baran

    187baran New Member

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    @noorbeast Thank you

    We can imagine that 6DOF is complicated and i think you are right,we are not going to do that.

    Our actual project was to build 3 dof SCN5 actuators..Let me paste my other post in some forums to explain.

    Hi ,we are some enthusiast of sim racing from Turkey and we were always planning to build motion simulators for ourselves but it was never going to happen because of the high rate taxes and currency problems.
    However we have a friend who is suffering from moonblindness but an amazing person.He is one of the most petrolhead person i know but he never experienced driving an actual car because of hiss moonblindness issues.
    So we secretly met up with my friends and decided to build one motion simulator to be played with oculus rift in order to make him available to see the interior and drive a car.We have been planning the all kind of things that we were going to use but we are not engineers but we understand from wiring,welding,electronics.
    We dont have much money and it is going to be DIY motion simulator definitely.

    We have a little savings but not much,we are planning to put it in kickstarter website but we are not sure yet.We are not engineers or anything but simulation lovers.We understand from mechanichs and electronics well.

    So,what we were going to ask is

    1.We are planning to use 3xSCN5, 2 for back of seat and 1 for traction loss.
    We have found a better actuator from SCN5 which has a better weight range and stroke speed.Can we use it with our sim ? what would we need to connect these actuators to pc? We never did this kind of things before.
    3.When we are trying to buy SCN5 from mirai website,they ask about I/O Type(PNP -NPN) what are these.
    2.We heard that oculus rift has some lag problem,is that a big issue ?
    3.Do you prefer to use ac motors or actuators ? and what are the pros and cons of each.
    4.If we plan to use actuators like vesaro systems,would be any difference ?are we going to need DBox systems eventually or we can build that on our own?
    5.What software do you recomend for our project..
    6.Do you have any example drawings for us in order to inspire.

    Sorry if there are any meanless questions,please understand us.We are trying to do something good and we need information.

    Best Regards from Turkey.
    187baran, May 23, 2015
    #3
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    1. It would likely be cheaper to use DC motors rather than SCN5.
    2. They are different types of transistors.
    3. The DK2 Oculus Rift is a development VR head mounted display (HMD), consumer grade VR HMDs will be available from Valve/HTC in the last quarter 2015 and the consumer Rift is due for release first quarter 2016. Many users here already use the DLK2 with motion simulation, including myself. It lacks a little in resolution and many of the current VR enabled games have yet to implement things such as VR menus, but set up correctly on a powerful gaming machine with a high end graphics card it can be an incredibly smooth and immersive experience. Consumer grade VR will be even better and a lot more simple to setup.
    4. Dbox actuators are exceedingly expensive, unless you are very rich they are cost prohibitive, go with DC motors instead.
    5. Use SimTools for motion, it is available for free on this site. Code is also available for Arduinos if you want to use them for control boards, or you could use JRKs, which are simpler to set up. Have a good look through the FAQs for details of both, plus a lot of other build related information: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/
    6. You can find some basic rig dimensions here, but they are not plans as such: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/cockpit-design-dimensions.116/
    Better to have a good look through existing member builds for ideas and inspiration: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/forums/diy-motion-simulator-projects.22/
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: May 24, 2015
    noorbeast, May 23, 2015
    #4
  5. 187baran

    187baran New Member

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    Thank you again @noorbeast
    I think we will be going with SCN5s first..We will be buying the Consumer grade VR as soon as it is available,we already have DK1 with my friend,we are going to use that at first.
    ı am looking as i found some free time.this is my only life goal right now so it will take some time to decide the whole thing.

    i want to ask why all expensive motion simulators are using actuators ? does it feels more realistic or what ?
    187baran, May 23, 2015
    #5
  6. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    I think that is the result of historical design and exclusivity more than anything else. Unlike DIY until now there has been no real cost pressures, as commercial simulators have been high priced, generally between 10K - 100+K. Actuators are fast enough for good motion simulation so are an easy choice, though some have their inherent weaknesses, like the SCN5s being prone to breaking pins: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/my-scm-scn5-actuator-pin-broke.2012/
    noorbeast, May 23, 2015
    #6
  7. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Not to mention Actuator's are Noisy as FUC* compared to a gear motor.
    Nick Moxley, May 24, 2015
    #7
  8. 187baran

    187baran New Member

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    Just read that and we will be using 150mm with %25 limiter thanks to that post.I think we have a lot more to look for and we have to learn more in order to build something we understand.
    @noorbeast
    187baran, May 24, 2015
    #8
  9. 187baran

    187baran New Member

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    i think i was watched some videos about that but i thought it must be the actual video recording issue.Never though it would be that noisy.So now i understand why they use 5.1 sound systems.
    We are going to use some headphones ? can it push down the noise of SCN5 s ?
    @Nick Moxley
    187baran, May 24, 2015
    #9
  10. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Last edited: May 24, 2015
    noorbeast, May 24, 2015
    #10
  11. 187baran

    187baran New Member

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    @noorbeast
    Can you give some examples of gear motors,what tork it should have for seat mounting,and gear ratios please.
    i may find it around turkey without paying tons of shipment cost. i didnt like the box system,it doesnt look good i think.
    We may use gear motors and JRK's but we may need some help with wiring.

    Regards
    187baran, May 24, 2015
    #11
  12. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Torque and linear speed are influenced by design decisions, check here for an overview: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/calculating-basic-linear-speed-and-forces.89/

    A lot of the usual Ebay motor sellers have run out of stock lately, but perhaps other European based members can advise on possible suppliers. What you should look for is 200-300w with 25:1 gearbox for shoulder or foot designs or 50-60:1 for compact full frame designs.

    There is plenty of god JRK information available for wiring and setup: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/jrk.8/category
    noorbeast, May 24, 2015
    #12
  13. 187baran

    187baran New Member

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    Some amazing stuff you gave me ,thank you very much.
    i am sorry for any meanless questions but i have te understand.
    Do we have to buy the dc motors with gearbox or they are separated ,we combine it then ?

    i think i can find these motors in turkey.i think we are talking about these motors
    http://yr.com.tr/?Page=Products
    i think this is just gearbox,every motor is not suitable for this gearbox right ?
    what about Rpm and ampers ?
    it may be alot of questions ,sorry again
    187baran, May 24, 2015
    #13
  14. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Nick Moxley, May 24, 2015
    #14
  15. 187baran

    187baran New Member

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    @Nick Moxley
    Just checked your setup.Wow amazing stuff.

    Thank you for your advice and i will definitely think and do some drawings about using dc motors.You may changed our entire plan.

    What is Hall effect Pot ? is it traction loss ?

    How did you managed to do traction loss.
    like this friend
    187baran, May 25, 2015
    #15
  16. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Before you go any further be aware of the range of motion simulator types: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/what-kind-of-simulator-for-me.16/

    There is an extensive glossary so you can look up things you do not understand like traction loss and pots: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/glossary-of-acronyms-and-names.66/

    Once you understand the basic meaning you can find further details in the FAQs:

    http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/different-ways-to-pivot-traction-loss-frame.105/

    http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/how-to-connect-potentiometer.13/

    You will be then in a position to ask community members specific questions about those topics that relate directly to your plan or build.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    noorbeast, May 25, 2015
    #16
  17. 187baran

    187baran New Member

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    @noorbeast thank you,you may be right.We are not there yet to start build,i have to research more.
    right now i am thinking to use @Pit s design.
    we are going to use winches to power shoulder system and worm gear motor for traction loss.Pits heave design is awesome ! must be spectacular to drive that sim.We are going to make his design as an idol design and keep researching on forum.

    I am sorry again for meanless questions,clearly i did asked some.please understand me,i am barely sleeping on last days because of excitement.So,thank you

    I will be asking specific questions later on.

    Regars
    Baran
    • Like Like x 1
    187baran, May 25, 2015
    #17
  18. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    187baran nice to hear you want to rebuild my racing simulator. Before you will go shopping please upload any links or a shopping list before that. Furthermore there exist many winches on the market, some are loud(er), some are way too strong etc. Please keep in mind my simulator is a 2DOF in the basics, I added traction loss and later a separate "heave" motor, which is additional and not needed at the beginning, but if you will integrate it later you have to think about it earlier ;)
    • Useful Useful x 1
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
    Pit, May 25, 2015
    #18
  19. 187baran

    187baran New Member

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    Hi @Pit
    You have such an amazing rig.Awesome job.Feeling very lucky to see that.
    i have been looking for winches for this day from my country.here is what i came across untill now.
    http://www.makinahirdavat.com/pinfo.asp?pid=10900
    http://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/yede...2-atv-winch-2000-lbs-atv-vinc-148352757/detay
    http://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/yede...arazi-araci-12-volt-mini-vinc-208108518/detay
    http://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/yede...-lb-1350-kg-cekme-gucu-455-tl-213992108/detay
    http://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/yede...gucu-uzaktan-kumandali-455-tl-212068678/detay
    some of them does not have some detailed specs.i have demanded from some of them they will reply in some time i think

    I think to start with 2 shoulder mover motors with traction control.
    when i understand the whole system after building,i will add the third heave motor and i will make your name as a sticker on the rig to thank you .i will prepare my design as you said for the heave motor before building it.

    when i decide the motors and the other things,i will start drawing the design.
    So ,thank you again

    Regards

    Baran
    187baran, May 25, 2015
    #19
  20. 187baran

    187baran New Member

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    http://urun.gittigidiyor.com/yapi-m...ktrikli-vinc-125-250-kg-hemen-kargo-169330768
    http://urun.gittigidiyor.com/yapi-m...ktrikli-vinc-400-800-kg-hemen-kargo-169330770
    http://urun.gittigidiyor.com/yapi-m...125-250-kg-elektrikli-vinc-caraskal-160108281
    http://urun.gittigidiyor.com/yapi-m...elektrikli-vinc-caraskal-250-500-kg-168312036
    http://urun.gittigidiyor.com/yapi-market-tamirat/kl-elektrikli-vinc-klv125-caraskal-168948604

    what about these gear motor for traction loss
    http://urun.gittigidiyor.com/otomob...-silecek-motoru-reduktorlu-dc-motor-160917248
    http://urun.gittigidiyor.com/otomobil-motor-aksesuar/cam-kaldirma-motoru-guclu-dc-motor-165078791
    http://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/alis...kosu-bandi-motoru-dc-220-volt-211687076/detay

    sorry for the mess of post.
    187baran, May 25, 2015
    #20
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