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This guys pretty awesome AC 6DOF but profile all wrong ???

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by SilentChill, Sep 17, 2015.

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  1. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    That's because the seat is moving forward ... :cheers
    speedy, Sep 18, 2015
    #21
  2. SilentChill

    SilentChill Problem Maker

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    Grrrrrrr yeah i realise that now I was being a retard :D
    • Funny Funny x 1
    SilentChill, Sep 18, 2015
    #22
  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Personally I think it depends on how you conceptualize what you are simulating.

    When you brake you do move forward with say a car, that is the direction of the motion of yourself and the car. But you are also separate from the car and each will continue to act as independent bodies unless acted upon by an unbalanced force:

    [​IMG]

    Seatbelts would contain the driver in the crash but what the driver then experiences is the change of that constraint as their body is being stopped from continuing in the original direction of the movement.

    So take my unusual approach to surge, where I am moving the controls relative to the user rather than the simulator itself. When you brake you are simulating the user moving forward relative the controls, but what I am doing is actually moving the controls back to simulate that haptic feedback. The reverse is used for acceleration.
    • Informative Informative x 1
    noorbeast, Sep 18, 2015
    #23
  4. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    @value1 said:Sorry @SilentChill but – as strange as it looks from outside – @Historiker is right :thumbs

    Wait....What?! You find it surprising that I am right?!! :D:grin:grin:grin:grin:grin:grin:grin:grin
    • Funny Funny x 3
    Historiker, Sep 18, 2015
    #24
  5. Pawks

    Pawks New Member

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    Interesting concept ... so you have an additional actuator for this motion?
    Pawks, Sep 18, 2015
    #25
  6. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    • Like Like x 3
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015
    speedy, Sep 18, 2015
    #26
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Yes @Pawks: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/dx-racer-compact-simulator.5866/page-13#post-81922

    The difference is that I am far more interested in simulating the haptic sensation rather than the actual force. So I can sustain the sensation of moving toward or away from the controls for any period, which you can't do when just trying to simulate the force with a traditional surge table, as it will run out of travel.

    Hence my comment that 'it depends on how you conceptualize what you are simulating'.
    • Like Like x 2
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    • Winner Winner x 1
    noorbeast, Sep 18, 2015
    #27
  8. Pawks

    Pawks New Member

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    @noorbeast very nice build you have there... and that concept is certainly worth considering when building a rig, maybe even just as an addition to already moving platform - should add an extra bit of feeling... :)
    Pawks, Sep 18, 2015
    #28
  9. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    My feeling is this is just a case of, "Different strokes for different folks.":)
    • Like Like x 1
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    BlazinH, Sep 18, 2015
    #29
  10. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I had my surge table setup to move forward on breaking, because without a working washout, maximum surge was felt in the change of direction, so it just felt better that way. It should be going in the opposite direction.
    • Like Like x 1
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    SeatTime, Sep 18, 2015
    #30
  11. bsft

    bsft

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    Serious OCD problems I see.....
    • Funny Funny x 1
    bsft, Sep 18, 2015
    #31
  12. bsft

    bsft

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    Just had a thought, @Nick Moxley uses seat belts on his, and so does @SeatTime , so when they hit the brakes in their 2 DOFers they get tilted forward, but the tension on the belts gives them the impression they are under strain from brakes.
    Mind you, that 2 DOF, not 6 DOF.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    bsft, Sep 18, 2015
    #32
  13. SilentChill

    SilentChill Problem Maker

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    I will have to reverse the surge and have a feel of it as I have not tried since lengthening my levers. @bsft what you said is exactly what was in my head and couldn't get to understand why it was the other way, I am a bit dumb at times :D
    • Funny Funny x 5
    SilentChill, Sep 18, 2015
    #33
  14. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    we all have our moments, :grin
    • Agree Agree x 2
    Nick Moxley, Sep 18, 2015
    #34
  15. hooshang

    hooshang Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    all those guys who have experienced both 2dof and 6dof rig like @SilentChill and also me have the same feeling like he said.
    IMO we should work and study a little more on that.
    please watch this:


    and just let say in 2dof when you brake, the nose of your rig coming down,ok but this is not cause of pitch value all the way of coming down is for surge value .and I know these guys like the one Silentchill mentioned don't have the real surge on their rigs they just change their configuration for surge to have nose down when brake .and in the normal situation the surge don't bring nose down in 6dof.
    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
    hooshang, Sep 19, 2015
    #35
  16. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Yes ... I see the overall concept is pretty clear now ...
    1- You need to be pushed back in chair when accelerating ??? ...
    so you choose the relative action depending on the rig type 2, 3, ... ,6 DOF ...​
    whither to move the chair forward .... or pitch the nose up .​

    2- Vise versa ...


    @hooshang ... this is the case that @SilentChill is talking about ...
    the outer look movements are fine ... but the driver's Acc./Dec./shifting feelings are reversed .
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
    speedy, Sep 19, 2015
    #36
  17. SilentChill

    SilentChill Problem Maker

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    Yeah its really hurt my head thinking about it lol I get it if you have quick movement and long range of surge to do it, the way this guy has it set is correct. But when you only have 100mm of movement its better for the chair/platform to go back when you accelerate and forward when you brake, I have tried it his way on mine and it just feels odd, maybe its just me lol

    To move you out of your seat and do as gravity and inertia would you need some serious speed and long range in the movement for it to feel right in my opinion.

    But hey ho each to their own, what ever feels right for each individual.
    • Agree Agree x 4
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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
    SilentChill, Sep 19, 2015
    #37
  18. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I guess that's where G-Seats come in. For braking they push you out of the seat and the belt holds you in. Even though I only have a 2DOF, the sensation of braking (full nose down pitch) with strong springs and a tight belt is one of the best Sim feelings as your chest gets compressed.

    I know if I brake and emit a "Ugh" my Sim is working well :)

    This thread made me chuckle @SilentChill - Working forces on a 2DOF nearly had me committed so on a 6DOF it must be bonkers!
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Archie, Sep 21, 2015
    #38
  19. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    FI, I'm aiming for a CG around the bottom of my chest and pitching the rig (so I can get more of a sustained force) mainly for breaking/acceleration on my 6DOF, so will see how that goes.
    • Informative Informative x 1
    SeatTime, Sep 21, 2015
    #39
  20. Hobbs77

    Hobbs77 Active Member

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    I'm in the boat that when accelerating my rig moves back and when braking it moves forward. I think if it was to move in the other direction my peripheral vision of the room moving differently than my brain perception would drive me crazy.

    Of course if I were to be using VR head gear, where I couldn't see the room around me might something all together different.
    Hobbs77, Oct 24, 2015
    #40
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