1. Do not share user accounts! Any account that is shared by another person will be blocked and closed. This means: we will close not only the account that is shared, but also the main account of the user who uses another person's account. We have the ability to detect account sharing, so please do not try to cheat the system. This action will take place on 04/18/2023. Read all forum rules.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Now a Download Plan!
  3. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  4. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant. Do not follow these rules can lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.
    Are you a company? Read our company rules

What fast linear actuator would you use?

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Antidamage, Oct 6, 2015.

  1. Antidamage

    Antidamage New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Messages:
    11
    Balance:
    116Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    Guise. An actuator is a DC motor configured as rack-and-pinion with a shaft. You can understand why I'd mistrust opinions from people who haven't tried both options.

    Anyway, pretty clear that this thread is done now. Thanks for your input.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    @Antidamage , this not the wrong place to ask things or suggest new ideas at all, we welcome it. If you have new ideas, the best thing is to put them into practice and show us all.
    However, unless you have more substantial proof from having or using an actual a working simulator, then I would say you are assuming from information and videos (and the one you originally linked is SCN actuators, not from a bed or hospital).
    Simulation on a DIY scale is a mind trick, we are not in a position to re-create actual g-forces. Even I am surprised at what my mind thinks is going on with motion and whats happening on my screen, and thats with my "bump" simulator.
    The discussion between "seat shaker - bump" simulators and 6 DOF has gotten very heated with assumptions being thrown back and forth in the past.
    Again you are welcome to suggest ideas, however as seen from other peoples replies, kindly step carefully, because unless you can say you have had 100 or so people of ages from about 5 to 88 and 10 professional drivers actually use a seat mover simulator and they have stated, it feels immersive and they get the feeling of g-forces, then your assumptions and suggestions are nothing more than leaves in the wind.
    Cheers, David.
    P.S. I use actuators on my current ride, however, the DC motors we use have proven themselves to be excellent in motion use and quieter , and faster than my actuators sound like a wood saw going mad. Mind you, I got the actuators for free and had to re-motor them myself and even though they are a lowly 250mm per second, I might as well use them.
    Actuators

    DC motors
  3. Antidamage

    Antidamage New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Messages:
    11
    Balance:
    116Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    "Kindly step carefully"? That's some thug life shit. I do not care to validate my standing in your community before expressing what I want to do and if I have to, enjoy your very elite little group. Also I don't think your actuators are doing anything in that first video. Compare yours to the video I initially posted. That guy's setup could toss someone out of the seat if it wanted to.

    So getting back to the point: one of the first replies to this thread is some waffler trying to show how smart he is and how dumb I am. Almost all the rest are along the lines of "you don't know what you're talking about, we haven't tried it but it's stupid". I know I don't know what I'm talking about - that's why I came here to ask questions. But what I got in return was general spite and snobbishness. I didn't come here to make a worm drive rig and all I get back is "why aren't you making a work drive rig?" You guys are unworkable.

    Thanks to those of you that helped and sorry you're being tarred with the same brush as the rest of them.
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,081
    Location:
    Wollongong, NSW, AU
    Balance:
    3,796Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,380 / 4 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    [​IMG]
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
  5. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,573
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Balance:
    28,370Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,844 / 39 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    AC motor, Motion platform
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. nclabs

    nclabs Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2012
    Messages:
    165
    Balance:
    196Coins
    Ratings:
    +146 / 0 / -0
    This is a community, you explained your theory and we gave our thought on it, but nobody is stopping you to prove us wrong. I tried different approaches (always with actuators, SCN5 are 400mm/s with no load and SCN6, 40kg and 200mm/s) but the best it's what you call "bump simulator". In a 2DOF it's impossible to do it, just because the simulator can't move up. It's a complicated topic anyway, when I try to explain to my friends I can see a lot of confusion and they ask me a lot of question. It's complicated due to the quadruple model (virtual world, virtual car, real world, simulated car) and the interaction between them. Even the cable simulator you posted it's flawed, what is going to do when it have to simulate an infinite acceleration in one direction? Does it have an infinite space to travel? That's why most simulators use leaning, if you sit on a chair with the chair's leg glued to a wall, your vestibular system tells your brain you are accelerating up in 1g, cover your eyes with a VR visor and your brain tells you are accelerating in the direction you watching to 1g. That's maximum leaning (90°) but this isn't achievable because of all the transition problem, it would be very hard to quickly switch between leaning direction. Luckily, comes to help us, as a matter of fact, our brain is capable to adapt the feeling of simulated acceleration to basically any leaning angle. It doesn't matter if you leaning 10° or 20°, once you get used to a certain degrees, the trick works just as good of any other leaning angle. I know it might seems counterintuitive, but that's my experience. The first time my seat moved (a little), I was scared to fall on the ground, for the very same reason, my brain wasn't used to a moving seat, and it felt an unexpected acceleration, which made me believe to fall. Our brain is very adaptable and we have to use this ability to get the most out of our simulators. I hope this post can help you.
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    21,157
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    148,628Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,909 / 54 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Lets try and put speed and G-force into some comparative context: https://www.translatorscafe.com/cafe/EN/units-converter/acceleration/7-19/millimeter/second²-acceleration_of_gravity/

    The video you linked in the first post of this thread moves at 20mm/s, which is equivalent to simulating 0.002039432425956 acceleration of G.

    The actuator you found that does 9 inches/s = 228.6mm/s, which is equivalent to simulating 0.02331071262868 of G.

    A fast sim as used here by some members can move at 500mm/s or better, which is equivalent to simulating 0.0509858106489 acceleration of G.

    An F1 car pulls anything up to around 5 Gs, so to simulate that would be 50000mm/s, which is equivalent to simulating 5.09858106489 acceleration of G.

    As I said in my earlier post it is not really practical to simulate Gs and moving something comparatively slowly over a long axis movement is not really the way to go about tricking the brain into thinking it is experiencing significant forces.

    You asked what it feels like, well this shows the movement of the seat of my 3DOF sim, my head is moving more than that even with a tight harness. The projected image is actually not moving at all, it just appears so as the camera is mounted on the simulator. I may not experience the full Gs of an F1 but the feeling is ferocious, I had to turn my sim settings down to 95%, as any more is really uncomfortable.

    Being a 3DOF the seat is not just shaking but is moving under you to represent every corrugated ripple strip, every uneven undulation and bumps. You feel it under your thighs and back when you brake hard and a longer period of what feels like genuine acceleration as you nail it. The harness tightens and loosens with the movements in a very realistic manner.



    And this is a real F1 view:

    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  8. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,779
    Occupation:
    Owner/Operator- Moxleys Rantals
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
    Balance:
    17,055Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,505 / 30 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    This isn't the first time we've had a user come through the doors with your attitude, and It wont be the last....
    • Agree Agree x 3
  9. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    1484254_568672726544918_976475823_n.jpg
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,161
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Michigan USA
    Balance:
    9,201Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,164 / 19 / -1
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    @Antidamage There are lots of us who like large movements, there is really nothing wrong with either type; it depends on your preference. Keep plugging away and find what you enjoy using. Please do continue to ask questions, experiment, and hopefully you can introduce something new to the hobby. And a belated welcome to the forums.
  11. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,081
    Location:
    Wollongong, NSW, AU
    Balance:
    3,796Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,380 / 4 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Opinions are like an asshole.

    Everyone has one and only yours doesn't stink.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  12. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    1495537_243885102444415_1215387847_n.jpg
  13. Avenga76

    Avenga76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2014
    Messages:
    518
    Occupation:
    Network Engineer
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Balance:
    3,261Coins
    Ratings:
    +853 / 6 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Yup. I'm from Auckland, North Shore.

    I have a rift also and you are welcome to come over and have a blast on my motion simulator.

    It would be cool to share tips on the rift because I have only had mine for a few weeks.