Advice on first attempt at ultra simple motorcycle sim?

Hmm: http://www.pcworld.com/article/260591/how_to_use_your_android_tablet_as_a_secondary_display.html

Either way, being able to mount a screen I already have right to the simulator removes concerns about having structure obscuring view of the screen. This lets me move the pivot point higher than eye level.

The more I think about this, the more I think that's the way to go. It has a lower parts cost up front, I'm not having to mess with opposing forces and preload. Reducing complexity also reduces risk of failure; one of my big concerns with a lower pivot point is that I'm relying on forces to keep the bike upright - if those fail and the bike falls all the way to one side there is a high risk of injury. A high pivot point removes that risk.

Here's how I'm planning to link the handlebars to lean. The beam in front is part of the dynamic frame which leans with the bike, and the cables are attached to the rigid frame the dynamic frame hangs from. Moving where on the handlebars the cables connect and varying the number of pulleys and how they're arranged allows me to adjust how much force it takes to lean the bike vs how much lean I get out of it.

I use guy wires, saddles, and turnbuckles for guyed masts at work, so everything but the pulleys is available at no cost. No cost makes me happy.

I built this half hemisphere screen best immersion yet. I had the 3 projectors with surround 3DOF but this with 1 projector( Benq W1070 3d) and a 1/4 hemisphere mirror . Great immersion . Still working on it but 90 % there. One thing I have noticed with simulators that tilt a lot ,people tend to keep their head straight, its a natural tendency to keep your head vertical. If the projection is good you don't need a lot of movement to convince the brain your leaning or pitching.

Thinking about your idea for a motorcycle sim using your throttle and handle bars to control the lean and acceleration , I am using the Heavy duty 560lbs actuators https://www.servocity.com/html/560_lbs__thrust_linear_actuato.html#.Vkjv0E2FOos running at 24 volts (no problems and overkill for what your doing) but you could use their digital Manuel speed control to move some actuators. Pivot the bike from the front and rear wheel axle points for sure for roll and the front wheel only for pitching and with 3rd actuator giving you knuge forward or reverse for some acceleration feel. Have the 2 actuators for pitching and acceleration linked together. no need for any electronics to read from the racing sim. Of coarse you would not have any bumps or anything like that but mmmm could be interesting.?

Yes I will do a video I am just waiting for a new mirror, the one I am using now is an old very scratched up one.
I used a 7 ft Beach ball and fiberglass over it . D lp projector and a 1/4 hemisphere mirror requiring NO screen correction software which is a real bonus which I had to use for the 3 surround screen, I was using Fly elise ng. a few quick pics . I will post a new thread next week.

I'm trying to keep away from active control systems right now. This is a first attempt, so I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible. If this works well enough to merit continuing to work on it, I will probably add complexity in iterations, but if I attempt too much complexity up front I'll just get frustrated and give up.

So is the front wheel of the bike or lower parts of the forks going to actually turn?

I'm asking because I think the steering is starting to over complicate the sim. I'll be building my first mockup with no steering from the handlebars to simplify it. I think to get it working with the lean is the first thing to focus on without the complexity of the steering. Then it can be added afterwards. The main reason for this is that the front forks will already have a motor in there for the front up and down motion. It could get incredibly complicated when adding in other mechanisms on top of the motion so it'll be good to get the important things in there first. The handlebars can be separated from the forks afterwards and remounted to supply feedback electronically via a potentiometer rather than mechanically with pulleys or levers.

It would in my case, but there wouldn't be a motor on the front forks either so it's not an issue for me. I originally wanted to have the front and rear wheel be where the bike attaches to the frame, but combining the rotation of the handlebars and the lean along a different axis makes it a lot more difficult when I could just attach the frame somewhere else.

I gotcha.

So it's more of a non force feedback, racing sim than a motion sim.

I've been looking for a bike to use as a test but it would seem bike breakers are looking for crazy money for scrap bikes at the minute. I might have to just weld together a frame and attach the fairings after and that's assuming I can even find a set of those somewhere cheap.

I have a dual mass flywheel at my garage to test and see how much lean angle it can handle or how well it returns to the center.

I really just want to get the lean working right now. I think that's the biggest challenge, and once that's done I can start adding more complexity. At the very least, the lessons from the first attempt will give me insight into a second model.

I'm having trouble finding a bike as well. I've seen people trying to sell broken gixxer frames, just the frame, for $500. *Facepalm*

I'm starting to wonder if I wouldn't be better off using a bicycle and adding motorcycle controls to it. It would also significantly reduce weight and thus how much structure I need.

I think I'll use a mini moto frame for reference as I have a spare here and I'll just make a bigger version of it and leave out the bits that won't really be needed to keep it lighter.

Quote::If I replace the front axle with a longer bar, I can connect each end of it to cables running to the front of the base. That would cause the handlebars to pull on the cable and lean the bike. There are probably fancier solutions involving pulleys that I might look into.

I think you are the right track with this idea of a bar through the front axle using cables ,I have had cables various lengths made up for Marine steering ,push pull ,not expensive but very strong and no give to them.() Pivot the bike from the CG point with you on it. Criss cross the cables so the left front goes to the right rear of the bike pulling it down and vise versa for the right front . Maybe use gas shocks to help with the weight shift? Plus with the bar you can make it as long as you want, the longer the bar the more lean adjust it to what feels right.

After some thought, I think I'm better off attached the cables directly to the handlebars. The forks should be more than able to handle the twisting forces, but why introduce an unnecessary point of failure?

I'm been doing some math.

I was worried about not being able to build a 2x4 frame strong enough to carry the weight of rider + bike. Turns out 2x4s ca handle way, way more than I need, so that's not a concern.

Then I calculated how much force I would have to exert to actually lean a suspended bike. Assume a 250 lb combined weight for me and the motorcycle frame, because I'm very light. How much force would it take for me to keep the bike at a 30 degree lean?
tan(30) * 250 = 144

I have to do the equivalent of carrying 144 lbs in order to maintain a 30 degree lean. Even if I use a pulley to halve that, I'm looking at the equivalent of carrying 72 pounds. Suddenly, using a bicycle frame instead of a motorcycle frame seems like a REALLY good idea. I could probably get that down to 92 lbs, 46 lbs with a pulley. To be fair, that's distributed between using my legs and back to lean my body and using my arms and shoulders on the handlebars, so it's not quite as bad as it sounds.

The fun question is how much handlebar turn will be required to actually achieve that amount of lean. That's determined by how far from the pivot the cables pulling the bike to one side actually is. I need to find out how much handlebar turn equates to how much lean on an actual motorcycle in order to figure that out.

If you enough weight underneath your pivot point, which should be just under your seat, add counter weight or counter balance, you should be neutral. And I don't how your going to get pulling action attaching to your handle bars? Also they will be an obstruction. If I find some time tonight I will draw up what I have in mind. You don't have a shop like a bent Bike in Edmonton to get an old frame? I can ask around here.( if you ever get out to Surrey) We had a motorcycle shop go up in flames in Langley 6months ago there was bike carcasses by the hundreds. if I only knew someone needed one hey!

Kinda like this . the pivots are not exactly where they should be the frame is in the way I know and the rear axle too but the cables at the back are attached to the base use rods from the upper bar to the push pull cables

. Use Hyman joints for the pivot.

why not make a platform you can use your real bike for and then your onto a winner as you only need the platform then any new bike you buy you can ride it on the sim

For further reference, here is another very interesting video I haven't seen posted here yet.

Note: Action starts at 1:05