Winches motor discussion

Moved to here as @noorbeast indicated. Please, all that can help, fell free to post. @Pit

I managed to get some winch motors cheap and i think i will use them, so i did some math...

http://www.northerntool.com/images/downloads/manuals/999364.pdf
I found this winch spec...
Say 153:1 and 23 rpm as pit already related. Also says that has 0.85HP

Taking count 0.7HP for tolerance.

Using this site:
http://ncalculators.com/electrical/horsepower-to-torque-calculator.html

We can get +/-220nm from 23 rpm and 0.7hp

If we get 220 newton meter, using a lever of 20cm, we will get 1100 n/20cm....
100cm - 220nm
20cm - 1100nm
(Reverse math cause value goes higher)

as here we use kg, 1100nm is +/- 100kg

Lets go to speed.

if we have 23rpm , so we have 0.4rps.
0.4 rps is 140°...
so in 1 sec, 140°....

Using this:
http://www.endmemo.com/physics/rpmlinear.php
200mm r
140° /sec

is 481mm/sec...

So, with a 2000 lbs winch, we can travel +/-40cm with a speed of 481sec, lifting 100kg?

I think i'm wrong somewhere, but all looks fine....

Please, let me know if i get some wrong info!

U are right @noorbeast, let's say that the final efficiency is 60%...

60% of .85=.5

Using the torque calculator, gives 154nm...
Transforming for 20cm arm, gives 770nm.

If the formula is kg x gravity = nm, let's make reverse, 770/9.8= 78 kg...

3 motors = 240 kg lift?

Same Calc taking 40% motor efficiency = 62kg = 186 kg lift?

1. Are this numbers OK or can't expect that?

sorry I didn't understood, can u explain better? Cause I'm from Brazil

23 RPM is sufficient for speed and reactivity ?

@noorbeast, now understood, but it can happen with all simulators, right ? I'm thinking about a center spring to balance the weight...

@Stealthelius What i already learned is: we need linear speed, for big travel we need slow rpm motors, for short travel we need faster rpm...

For u to understand: if we have a slow rpm, we have more torque, to have linear speed we will need a long arm, if we have a longer arm, we will have more stroke.
If we have more rpm, we have less torque and need to use a shorter arm, to have strengh and speed, so we will have less stroke.

Hope u understand

@Gabriel Vuelma Romanzini now the concept is it clear. For wiper motors how many lenght of lever you suggest ?

btw using winches you can choose between torque and stroke. Even a long lever does not limit the (needed) torque, tough they can stress painfully your ear...

@Stealthelius idk about it, but i think in forum have a lot of info about it, about 45mm i think...

@Pit, i THINK i wont have problem with the noise, cause i use a very high volume, but as u know more than me, that can be a problem

Yeah @noorbeast , saw that, what a good idea from Pit to make a video like that

Just to keep winches discussion in one place...
I'm researching on winches to use just the motor for a linear actuator and discard all the rest, because it is impossible to get motors here (Argentina).
So, I can get two kind of winches at almost the same price:
1- Also known as Boat winch. Has a reduction of 400:1 and motor specs: 12V – 0.4 HP (0.29Kw) and around 4000 rpm without reduction.
2- Typical winch, has a reduction of 153:1 and motor specs: 12V – 1.1 HP (0.8Kw) and also around 4000 rpm without reduction.

What do you guys think it would be better to make an actuator, taking in consideration what would be needed in both cases to drive and power them, also the electric bill... It would be enough the smaller motor (easier to drive and power) ?

Interesting thoughts - ntl you still need a gear box or reduction when using an actuator. So how you will combine a gear box with the winch motors?

In an actuator based in a screw ball or lead screw, the screw itself is the reduction.
So, based in the winch motor speed and torque, and screw pitch, at 0.8Nm for the boat winch and 1.5Nm for the bigger, I got about 800Nm and 2000Nm movement force at the same speed (360mm/s).

A couple of comments based on my experiences with both types of winch motors. The boat winch motor you can indeed remove the motor and remount it elsewhere. But the planetary gear type winch motor is integral to it's housing and would be much more difficult to use in a different configuration. Not impossible, I did it myself but your mounting options are very limited.

As @Pit mentioned; you would need some type of reduction to get torque from the RPM of the motor (converting one to the other) but a ball screw would not give you that torque. This is how I know the difficulty of using the planetary gear motor without the gearing. I have a ball screw on my flight simpit seat (for heave) and without the gearing there is zero movement under load (even a light load) so the ball screw does not give much mechanical advantage.

The ball screw was never intended to give mechanical advantage really, I just needed a linear device for that DOF.

I am actually using a boat winch motor to drive the ball screw now. I removed the final gear (430:1 @ 10rpm gear 3 in picture) and am using the next to last gear (100:1 @ 40rpm gear 2b in picture). I am getting around 50mm/s travel which is great for flight but not at all usable for driving sims.

Here is some information about the typical boat winch created by another member @boosted-lt1 and posted in his build thread here:

http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/2dof-jrk-winch-build-thread.5369/

I use this exact winch setup myself.

@Historiker , thanks for your reply, I'd read your winches experiences lots of times

Maybe there is something I don't understand correctly, also any conclusion we can get will help. But,
I based my thoughts in other members experiences:

Some data about the superwinch kind of winch that @Ben V got, at least the best data I'd read in the forum using tools :
http://www.xsimulator.net/community...r-using-winch-motors-and-steering-boxes.6937/


@SeatTime own linear actuator with gearless motor 350watts 4500rpm (at least one of the motors he tested):



@wannabeaflyer2 linear actuator with gearless
Scooter Motor MY1016 2700Rpm 24Vdc 250 Watt and later with 300watts 4000rpm gearless motor.



@douwe http://jippes.home.xs4all.nl/Hi5/index.html Using household vacuum cleaner motor and a m10 threaded rod



None of them used gears and all of them worked more than fine, maybe I'm not explaining correctly because English is not my language.

Btw, I always wanted to ask you why you didn't tried that great trick about taking out the last gear to get 42rpm that you used for your traction lost, in the other winches, as 100:1 reduction would be more than enough for that motors and shoulder mount. Also you told that your winches used 90watts motors and all the boat winches I found use 300watts motors, so maybe the winches manufacturers are giving wrong specs?

I saw some winch teardown videos in youtube, not much of a problem to get the planetary gear out, and to do a hole in the housing to adjust a shaft coupler. it also depends on the winch, as there are some with the planetary in one side, and other with the planetary at the other side: