Tutorial High Power Microsoft FFB2 Joystick

This is a DIY build using the Microsoft Force Feedback 2 Joystick.
The modification has been around for several years and is a proven design.
My objective is to provide cleaner photos and clearer instructions.
The need for a higher power FFB joystick is based on extending the length of the grip.
This scheme has also been used for a force feedback collective on a heli.

This clever idea consists of combining 2 Microsoft FFB2 joystick assemblies back to back to double the power.
A current limiting resistor modification can double its force again.

In the picture are the 2 joystick assemblies joined together.
It just so happens that the gears can line up perfectly and this ties the 2 sticks together.
The bottoms of the 2 sticks are butted together and secured with 4mm threaded rod and some DIY connecting plates.

If you decide to pursue this project make sure you buy the correct joystick.
There are 3 versions being sold on E-Bay (Microsoft no longer produces these) and you need the right one.
It must be the Force Feedback 2. It runs off 120-240vac.
Make sure the seller has a picture of the bottom of the joystick and it says 120-240vac.
$75 USD usually wins an auction $100 USD for a buy it now.
I bid a max of $40 and usually loose but I have scored 3 at that price so far.

One Joystick will be considered the top and the other is of course the bottom.
Be sure and mark each as such.
The gear mesh between the 2 sticks will be way off at first.
You will need to carefully file down the 4 corner posts for an all around even and proper gear mesh on both sets of gears. This is a bit tedious....

The joysticks originally mounted to their housings with 4 self tapping screws which you know all about if you have dismantled things this far. I drilled out the 3mm holes in the white plastic to +4 mm to allow 4mm threaded rod with nuts to loosely connect both sticks together and get everything lined up.
I then took some scrap fiberglass g10 type 1.5mm plate and made some connecting plates

If what you have now resembles a Borg Cube Battle Cruiser your halfway home.
Some wiring mods need to be made. Fortunately only the "bottom" joystick needs this.
The 2 "bottom" motors need to trade wires.
Also the polarity needs to be reversed.
The pictures should show this clearly (I hope)

Since these are really servo controlled motors they require a feedback sensor to tell the microprocessor what position the joystick is in at all times. The ForceFeedback 2 uses potentiometers or "pots" for this sensor. Since we reversed the Bottom Motors wiring we have to do the same for the feedback pots.
The picture shows the 2 feedback connectors.
The connector on the left is the Top Sensor and remains as it comes from the factory.
The connector on the right is the Bottom Sensor and must be completely reversed.
Using the tip of an Xacto blade I lifted the small plastic tab that releases the wire with terminal.
Be gentle doing this so as not to damage the wires.

I think I will put my own spin on this mod and try something a bit different.
I am going to use just one control board/power supply.
To do so just remove the wires going to the Bottom Motor and jumper them to the Top Motor as in the pictures.
The Bottom Sensors are no longer used so no need to switch wires on the connector.

The Motor driver chips are capable of driving 2 motors each.
Someone measured the current draw of each motor to be ,7 amps.
The chips can supply 3.5 to 5 amps so 2 motors draw 1.4 amps and there is some headroom left over.
I have tested this and it works fine.

I have attached a program called ForceTest which will allow you to test your FFB2. It is a bit clunky to use but there is help file and it does work...

Several years ago I pickup up several FFB2's so I might give this a try some day. I meshed one with a F-16 FLCS to give me the ability to use its buttons but the force feedback is rather weak considering the extended stick it has now. In the hand though it felt and worked great. Its also mounted on a subwoofer to enhance the force feedback.

Do you have a link for the resistor mod? And if you use it can you still use one board and power supply?

I will just post the mod here to help keep everything in one place.
Although they show you needing to add resistors to 8 points the fact is that
there are only 4 current limiting sensor/resistors. Microsoft already paralleled
two 1 ohm resistors per channel. So the mod is to drop this from .5 ohm to .25 ohm.
The resistor R90 and R92 are already parallel together.
Resistors R86 and R87 are already parallel together.
Resistors R15 and R14 are parallel together.
And resistors R8 and R5 are parallel together.

You can then add 8 more resistors 1 ohm each (1R0 as marked on the board)
My first modded board I used 1/8th watt 1 ohm resistors ..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/20pcs-1-8W-1-8-watt-1-Metal-Film-Resistor-U-PICK-RESISTANCE-FAST-SHIPPING-USA/123076736473?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


I have on order 10 of the .47 ohm smd from Mouser for this mod.
Mouser #: 71-RCWL1206R470JNEA

There are suppose to be a better motor driver chip so I have a few on order too.
Mouser #: 781-SI4532CDY-GE3

They replace the chip HAT3004R

LINKS..
http://www.simprojects.nl/ms_siderwinder_ff2_hack.htm

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=125281

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=83814

The pics are not real good. I will update them next week when my parts come in

BlazinH I will try a modded board on the new sticks. It will be close on the power ratings.
If I blow a chip the new ones will be here in few days. So I will give it a go...
I was thinking of just stacking the new chips on top of the old for 2x the current handling..
After all this is DIY city...
The power supply might start folding under a 6 amp load. It might be best to use a cheap led P.S. like those LED supplies on E-bay or Amazon..

I did test the stock power supply that comes with the Microsoft FFB2 and it is only good for 2 amps. It appears to have a protection circuit built in. Just a little over a 2amp draw and it shuts down like right now....
I suppose you could parallel supplies. You will need to us an "isolation diode on each supplies output but that will give you a solid 4 amps.
I have a 5 amp24 volt LED supply and I tested it. It is solid at 5 amps and that is what I am going to use.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01GC6VS8I/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AA0YO4F2UD50F&psc=1

There is a picture showing the PS mounted in the box.

I am still awaiting the new resistors and driver chips so I spent some time rigging a box.
I could not find a container to repurpose so I started on a box made from MDF.
Someone had mentioned about centering assist so I made one from light springs and a rubber "O" ring.
I made a lower shelf for the assembly. It is going to make positioning it in the box easier..

I received my parts today and spent several hours experimenting with the resistors/diodes and driver chips.
The bottom line is you can drop the sensing resistors with a single .47 ohm per chip output.
When I tried two .47 ohm resistors it caused a destructive oscillation which destroyed one of my 2 control boards.
So I consider that the limits of the board.
I did add the schottkey diodes. They are suppose to help keep the chips cooler.
I did not replace the driver chips. The stock chips are not getting hot from what I can tell.
The power of the single board system feels very adequate.
I stuck a 300mm extension to the top of the joystick stub and the power was good.
The only way I know of to get more force out of the system is to use 2 modded control boards.
I most likely will go that route but I will need another FFB2 stick first.. LOL

Project is done.
The grip extension is about 300mm. It was made from an old speaker stand tube that happened to have that "goose neck" bend in it.
It is steel and has about a 6mm id.
I did add some black rubber grommets over some fluorescent green fuel tubing. These serve as end stops for the sticks movements.
When you increase the length of the joystick the stick travel increases also.
When you find a comfortable amount of travel and set the stops thickness you will need to go into the Joystick Calibration mode in windows.
Recalibrating the joystick is simple and works well.
I just reused the original grip with its electronic interface.
I did have to extend the wires but there are only 6 conductors and I used servo extensions for the wire.
I give the project a 7.5 out of 10.
The stick shake works great.
www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Satellite-Speaker-Floor-Stand/dp/B001VRJ5D4/ref=sr_1_6?crid=2XJR4F3STBSKG&keywords=speaker+stands&qid=1551733104&s=gateway&sprefix=speaker+%2Caps%2C155&sr=8-6

I'm planning on doing one of these myself, what was the original project you were referring to? I can't seem to find anything about it on the internet..

I'm also interested in the DIY ffv collective if you care to share.

Awesome thread thanks.

Pretty sure PeterP over on the DCS forums, is the original gangsta.

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/69422-two-ms-ffb2-with-cougar-grip/

Some good info here too. On how to increase the forces, through hardware mods.

http://www.simprojects.nl/ms_siderwinder_ff2_hack.htm

@Tehrawk Thanks for finding that post. I looked yesterday but missed it. Since the project was 2 years ago I had deleted those bookmarks. I still mess with diy FFB projects now and then. The MS FFB2 joystick is really a good base to build from. I have purchased a few spares from "shopgoodwill.com" here in the US. Typically $20 or so plus shipping.. I have also managed to move the motor driver transistors off the main board. This allows the use of much larger transistors(mosfets) and still maintain the critical torque detecting feature of the FFB2 logic board.
Good luck with the project. I use my diy FFB yoke on FS2020 all the time and would really miss not having it..

@Grovesy I never perused the FFB collective project. I lost interest in DCS a few years ago and that pretty much is the only helicopter sim available.

@T R Para
Can you please describe how you managed to move the motor driver transistors off the main board? Sounds very interesting.

Joerg

Sorry to necro the thread but any chance you could give a rundown on how you did this? I know it's been a while haha but I'm just starting a msffb2 project and that seems to be the best way to do it.

Hello.. The remote mosfet circuit board worked but it became obsolete very quickly.
The better solution is much simpler . Just replace the 4 existing mosfet chips with these.
SQJ500AEP-T1_GE3
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/vishay-siliconix/SQJ500AEP-T1-GE3/6595027

The main ffb2 has been running these chips for 2 years without a problem.
You can lower the current sense resistors until the motors burn up lol.
Use low melt solder and solder wick with a good flux will remove the old chips
without damaging the circuit board. Clean off the lowmelt with regular leaded
solder and wick that off the board then solder the new chips...