Seatmover vs. joyrider design

How would you compare the ride between these two designs? The full-motion JoyRide design would seem more authentic, but I've never been in either.

Related: Are there any sim builders willing to show off their build in the mid-Atlantic area? Again, I'd bring the beer.

Thanks,
Dan

Re: simxperience vs. joyrider design

In a nutshell, joyrider construction is best suited for flight simulation. It has a greater movement range, thus producing larger G-forces and tilt, maintaining them for longer. It looses most of it's resolution and speed when dealing with smaller movements such as road surface, shift effects etc.

A seat mover such as the SimXperience stages offer very responsive movement reproducing road surface, gear shift effects, crashes, cars bumping into each other and so on. It is best suited for surface racing simulation because of this. Don't get fooled by the limited motion, this type of construction heavily relies on simulating muscle tension on your body, giving you a very similar effect as G-forces have on you while driving.

The bottom line is: If you are a flyer, the joyrider will be better. If you race more often, go for a SimXperience package that suits your needs.

Re: simxperience vs. joyrider design

I totally agree with Frakk.

Re: simxperience vs. joyrider design

Great, thanks. I'll start looking at the seat mover designs. -Dan

Re: simxperience vs. joyrider design

Is this assessment still valid if the joy rider is made with bike chain on the motors to make them more rigidly attached to the frame? I am drawn to the Joyrider even though I am a sim racer as it seams that the perceived g forces on the Joyrider will be more realistic. I do almost exclusively F1 sim racing.

The other thing that draws me to the Joyrider is the fact that the entire cockpit and monitor move. In a dark room it seems that the experience would be more realistic.

If pursuing the moving chair type sim does the fact that the wheel and monitor do not move bother any users out there?

Thanks for all the info,

Mars

Re: simxperience vs. joyrider design

ok mars i have both systems - Joyrider made from square tube and as frakk informs its great for flight but to feel those small bumps in the road ya really need a moving chair.
With my frex like system movement is limited to 100mm and my flight system uses 400mm so when ya break it down eg. a small bump in the roaded on the frex involves a quick jolt of about 10mm which feel like ya skipped over quickly, but with the joyrider setup the 10mm turns into 40mm and feels like ya just went up then down a small hill not really realistic but i suppose with alot of fiddling with the values ya should come to reasonable movement just a little harder to get that realistic feel.

And with my chair system the wheel,gearstick,pedals all move with the chair and the lcd projector and screen are stationary i found the seat just moving wasnt enough for me plus breaking pushed ya chest towards the wheel (uncomfortable) and heavy accel cause ya feet to nearly leave the pedals. So really comes down to what ya want to simulate and how realistic do ya want it to feel.

Re: simxperience vs. joyrider design

A proper motion profile will prevent you from being thrown into the wheel

Also, alot will depend on if you are using wiper motors or linear actuators. The linear actuators are a little better suited to the really small detailed movements, whereas the wiper motor with its higher torque will throw you around alot and do a good job with larger mass on a low budget.

To get back to the original question, it's a bit like asking someone if you should be Catholic, Christian or Muslim Many people will argue the point to their deaths, often times without logic.

I generally stay out of these debates. I have both with linear actuators and gear motors. I personally prefer the moving seat design with a well proportioned motion profile for racing.

Re: simxperience vs. joyrider design

Agree bvillerjr with profile the main reason for moving pedals and wheel was to include the pitch and roll to feel right.

Re: simxperience vs. joyrider design

I am finishing up a Motion Profile Creation wizard today that might make it a bit easier to get this right. I'll need a variety of wiper motor 2DOF seat testers to get the algorithm dialied in correctly. Once it's done, I can show you how to mix pitch/roll into the seat without making the movements too extreme.

Re: simxperience vs. joyrider design

In my head I am playing around with the idea of making a joyrider, and put a seatmover ( ;D )inside it. First ofcourse I must overcome all struggles with making electronics to my seatmover. When that is finished I might try to do that, and if I have time, I puplish my idea in the cad-section! :thbup:

Fred

Re: simxperience vs. joyrider design

mars:
It doesn't matter if you drive it with a chain or not, and how rigid you make the structure.
The more mass you move, the more power you need to move it fast. To reproduce road surface, you need to move things VERY fast.
Wiper motors will just not move that much weight that fast, and that is the end of the story.

A seatmover setup is much lighter and the actuators can accelerate faster, therefore you can get very small details out of them, compromising the amount of travel for prolonged G-Forces.

A more ideal solution is to cascade them for 2+2 DOF as Fred outlined, but that brings up the cost to more than double.

Re: simxperience vs. joyrider design

Thanks Frakk,

I am in the very early stages of researching sims. To save cost I would like to design and build a chair system that uses wiper motors and then change to actuators later if I feel the need.

I am now researching the electronics needed to move the motors...

Mars

*thread-title corrected*