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2DOF Motion Seat w/MM and Arduino Truck Wipers

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Pari, Nov 12, 2015.

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  1. Pari

    Pari New Member

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    Hi
    I want to build a 2dof motion seat at first. I already have many parts... seat, aluminium profiles, the center universal joint, 2 rods, 3 monster shield and the logitech g27.
    I still need to buy... the arduino, 2 truck wiper, the 2 poti resistors. biggest problem is which one of truck wipers and where can i get the motors in germany.
    my project is now launched. Today I built the frame. very stable construction. I hope the alu profiles are not too heavy for the motors.
    • Like Like x 1
    Pari, Nov 12, 2015
    #1
  2. Pari

    Pari New Member

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    my current balance is 15€ for the 3 MM (china seller)
    the other parts are a gift
    Pari, Nov 12, 2015
    #2
  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Aluminum profiles are used by members for light rigid frames. What matters is that the rig is well balanced: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/find-the-center-of-gravity-to-balance-a-motion-simulator.55/

    I am not sure of the best option for wiper motors locally, other than a wreaking yard, but there are a range of other alternatives if needed: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/dc-motors-shopping-list.32/

    If you do use wiper motors the likely they will need ground isolationhttp://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/wiper-motor-mandatory-ground-isolation.25/
    noorbeast, Nov 12, 2015
    #3
  4. Pari

    Pari New Member

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    Thanks!
    i know the balancing of the seat. but the parts are very strong. I want to avoid distortions
    the recommended motors unfortunately i can not find in Germany. At ebay there are similar motors but i´m unsure.
    I wonder why in some projects 24v motors are used at 12V. the loss of performance will be considerably... i think so? or?
    Pari, Nov 12, 2015
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  5. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    12V somewhat simplifies PSU and control board options, and with the right design and motors can out perform commercial actuators.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    noorbeast, Nov 12, 2015
    #5
  6. Pari

    Pari New Member

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    hi
    Today I build the upper part of the seat. some corrections are still necessary. the accelerator pedal has yet to find an attachment. i am looking for an lighter seat... might be too heavy for the motors. 20151112_165808.jpg 20151112_165829.jpg
    Pari, Nov 12, 2015
    #6
  7. Pari

    Pari New Member

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    Now it goes to the substructure. Same material like the seat construction. the universal joint must be shortened in length. the exact center position has to be determined if the pedals are attached. 20151110_210241.jpg
    Pari, Nov 12, 2015
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  8. Pari

    Pari New Member

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    Pari, Nov 12, 2015
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  9. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Is that a CV joint, or a universal joint?

    Often a CV joint can allow lateral twist and if this is the case for this one then you will need a drag link type bar between the top and bottom frame to prevent it.

    Details and responses in other thread: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/some-ebay-motors.7659/
    noorbeast, Nov 13, 2015
    #9
  10. Pari

    Pari New Member

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    cv joint??? universal joint was the translation i think it is an drive shaft ( another translation) ... there is a picture of the whole part. IMG-20151108-WA0001.jpg
    Pari, Nov 13, 2015
    #10
  11. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Translation can be tricky, so here is the difference:

    CV or Constant Velocity Joint     = Used in front wheel drive cars it allow a drive shaft to transmit power through a variable angle. When re-purposed for use in a motion simulator it can allow some unwanted rotational twist, which can be eliminated by constructing a diagonal pivot bar across the width of the simulator between the top and bottom frame. Not to be confused with a Uni joint: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant-velocity_joint

    Uni or Universal Joint = Commonly used on the end of a car tailshaft and re-purposed as a pivot point for a motion simulator. It is a joint that allows a rod to 'bend' in any direction. It consists of a pair of hinges located close together, oriented at 90° to each other, connected by a cross shaft. Not to be confused with a CV joint: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_joint
    • Informative Informative x 1
    noorbeast, Nov 13, 2015
    #11
  12. Pari

    Pari New Member

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    Yesterday I started the substructure, made the bracket for the cv. tonight I'm going to drill the hole for the cv... a very enormous drill 30mm. and I still have the cv to cut to size. the frame has made of aluminum profiles
    Pictures will follow on...
    Pari, Nov 20, 2015
    #12
  13. bsft

    bsft

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    @Pari Yes. 12v going into 24v motor means half the speed and half the torque. Use 12v for 12v. You listed a few motors . I will have a look and advise you.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2015
    bsft, Nov 20, 2015
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  14. bsft

    bsft

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    @Pari 1st one, no
    2nd or 3rd one looks better. Match 12v with 12v.
    Using 24v with 12v is a waste. People are trying to get more strength with a double voltage motor. And as said, you get half the speed and half the power, also, you may find you actually use more current trying to drive it on 12v.
    Really, if you want strength, look for the 12v 20 watt 25:1 motors most of us use these days. You have 3-4 times the speed, plenty of torque and they are quite strong.
    With the CV joint, it will have lateral twist in it, so if you plan to use it, look at adding a draglink to the frame to stop that twist.
    If you can find a rear wheel drive car driveshaft, XJ-SC V12 tailshaft w.jpg
    that is better as the shaft does not have lateral twist. Then you can cut it to size like this
    Keeping the swivel point (universal joint) as close as possible to the bottom of the seat
    2014-03-16 13.36.06.jpg 20151116_093937.jpg
    Now, with your frame, where are you going to mount the motors? Shoulders at rear? Foot motor mount?
    You also mention a lighter seat, how heavy is the current seat?
    Cheers, David.
    bsft, Nov 20, 2015
    #14
  15. cgodwin

    cgodwin Active Member

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    Half speed and half torque = 1/4 the power output. This is confirmed by P=V^2/R. As @bsft said, if you are going to run at 12V, use a 12V motor. Otherwise a 24V motor would have to be in the 1 HP range (700-800 watts at 24 V) in order to work at 12V in a typical simulator.
    • Like Like x 1
    cgodwin, Nov 20, 2015
    #15
  16. mariano68

    mariano68 Active Member

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    1-tricky specs, impossible to have 30NM at 80watts and 180rpm...
    2-120 Umdrehungen pro Minute. Drehmoment starke Getriebemotor,ca.20N.bei 24v 2A. 22watt : PPPFFF!!! NO NO NO!
    3-Nah
    I'd look for something better, but not much in your country, this one work better and is cheap http://www.ebay.de/itm/Pilot-Automo...587733?hash=item1e84d54315:g:3kIAAMXQPatTJw3H
    • Informative Informative x 1
    mariano68, Nov 20, 2015
    #16
  17. bsft

    bsft

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    2) 22watt....damn, missed that bit. I really should get sleep
    3), Ive used something like that on previous builds, they are ok.
    Only thing I can see an issue with electric jacks, is lack of bearings on swivel points. As its basically designed to go up and down now and then, not constantly be jittered around. But I could be wrong.
    bsft, Nov 20, 2015
    #17
  18. pipis2015

    pipis2015 over-boost

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    Running 24 v motor with 12v.
    Half speed yes.
    Half torque probably not.
    Torque is current related not volt related.
    pipis2015, Nov 20, 2015
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  19. bsft

    bsft

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    @pipis2015 ok then, which means you would have to have a LOT more amperage going into the motors then,
    Sorry, but I still think you are wasting your time doing something that someone else implemented because they also thought it was a good idea, when overall, it seems people would rather follow the sheep that attract the most attention than listen to someone with experience.
    Do as you please. I dont really care, Ive suggested something.
    bsft, Nov 21, 2015
    #19
  20. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Power is Volts * Amps (P=IV).

    12V * 20A = 240 Watts
    24V * 10A = 240 Watts

    Torque (Newton-meters) = Power (watts) divided by angular velocity (radians per second).
    noorbeast, Nov 21, 2015
    #20
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