AME motors anyone?

Hello,

looking for parts to my build which is still just theoretical. Have ordered 2 JRK's which will operate 2 winch(got 2 used for free) seat mooover for the beginning.
Later want to upgrade to full rig 2dof with yaw and drift axes. Right now i want to decide motors i will use for full rig so i will know PSU i need to order. I see all of you suggest for
http://www.motiondynamics.com.au/worm-drive-motor-12v-24v-200w-180-rpm-20nm-torque.html
This motor has ~180 rpm.

I found AME motors which have ~85 rpm, but a bit more torq :
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/AME-226-3001.html
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/AME-226-3003.html
metal gearing and bigger consumption.

Maybe someone can answer is 85 rpm too low?
Also i see it has 2 times bigger no load and rated current, does it gives any advantage?
68A at stall does it mean that JRK's will not handle it?

http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/AME-218-1003.html
This one too is interesting with 116rpm but only 11nm is it too low?

Maybe someone already saw these motors and have any thoughts about them?

BTW for those in EU found cheapest place for JRK's, makes it cheaper then buy in USA not counting Shipping and Customs+Tax:
http://www.robomaa.com/index.php?ma...ducts_id=514&zenid=j38cjkpl3nqud94dbkv44ip7k5

hello kurgine!

this one http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/AME-226-3001.html looks good for me
- enough torque
- 88 RPM is a no load speed... a good speed under load could be 30 à 40 RPM

the other are too quick and too weak...
yours
Mat

30-40 rpm under load is too slow, look at 240v sims with motors that rpm, not snappy enough for race.
80 rpm if fine, if you can get faster, thats a bonus.
I found with stall current usually is 2.5-3 times rated current depending on motor
and yes 68 amps is way too high for JRK, they peak at 49 amps for 6 seconds before they shut down.
The specs on the motors are steel gears, so they will be ok,
forget car wipers, they are too soft.
Motion dynamics motors are industrial plastic and near unbreakable. I know for a fact, I have used them for years and others use them with great success.
Overall, it depends on the frame design you have in mind depends on motor setup.
What frame do you have in mind?

@kurgine , you say you have 2 winch motors, they would be far better for a full frame as @eaorobbie can state. What winches do you have?

30-40 rpm only good for a flight deck, really you want the motors to run as quick as possible. With the Jrks which only offer an industrial quality PID tuning, yet to see a Ard do this as Mat is using, means if you need to go from max hight to its lowest hight it will do it in a split second, I have the same 12v 200W motors moving a total of 100mm in 0.1sec, real mean motion.
The winches are about 80rpm , but to increase the movement I used rather long levers 165mm but only used 90 deg of a turn, meaning I could equal the same speeds as the 200W motors but had a mass of torque for a full 2 DOF deck, with the same speeds as a Simxperience unit for a fraction of the cost.

So what Im trying to say is that planning for the motion you require can be done a couple of ways.

@bsft @eaorobbie : I just emphasized for kurgine the point that the no load speed specifications has to be taken cautiously ...
I estimated maybe half the speed under load for the motor (30/40 rpm)

For the simulator, the highest speed is the better and 30/40 RPM is indeed a minimum

I have too built a sim with 12v Wiper motors , they normally spin at 30-40 rpm once loaded the resulting motion is very sloshy and lack the timing need to keep up with the graphics of the game , for flight (not jet planes) it wasnt bad at all but with my love of racing it was a big let down to me. I built the sim before every registering with the site, It used tronics cards which use to blow bits all the time at one mosfet per 1 hr of use.
This really discouraged my interest and it was not until I was following my other interest in RC controlled vehicles did I discover the Jrks thinking that it was the controller that resulted in my poor sim movements (not even judging the bad software I was using SimWorksV1) to find out with my first test that the wipers were not going to cut it, I wanted to equal the becoming popular SimXperience units but didn't want to pay the price he wanted for them, at this time their use was not common knowledge. It wasn't till I discovered the winch motor , thinking why not they run faster wiper, heaps of torque (400:1 Gearing), stuff it , give it a go. At first the motion was very similar as it was only reaching 80rpm. One must remember to give as close to a true linear motion from a rotary lever we must use tangent of the movement ie I use to use 60 deg out of the 360 deg with a 165mm lever this resulted in about 100mm of movement to the back of the chair in a nice linear form like a con rod pushing a pistion.
Just after this nearly four years ago I released my findings here for all to see. At the time my sim was ridiculed because I was using something no one had thought of and at the time the only full PID controller available as an off the shelf unit. Tronics was never full PID , it was a P controller only at this time, no better than K8055. (Which I based a sim off too, another story)

What I found that for race sims in order to match the SimX which really had set a presidence in my opinion of being one of the best motion sims for racing (way to expensive and noisy). To match the 200mm/s that the SCN5 could produce in Xsim or Simcommander, I need a motor capable of over 100rpm, with 65mm to 85mm levers in the same angle configuration as thiers. I sold my last sim after a well publish arguement with the other developers and walked away from sims completly. Wasnt until the persistance of someone asking me questions on how to build and setup sims outside of the forums, that I heard a buddy of mine had a new beta motion software that they wanted testers to help with that I came back to sims. Now back in the search for a sim that equaled what I wanted out of a race sim. Through this person I discovered some quick motors that fitted the bill, and I beat the 200mm/s well trippled it.
With a profile written correctly and tuned specifically to the sim I was able to achieve the same results for half the cost.

This is why I pass on what I have learnt so others dont make the same mistakes. Granted these motors will not hold much wieght when setup incorrectly , the gearbox is too free, but once in motion, omg the shock of my life. Rattles equal to an SCN5 almost way too much for the eyes to keep focus on a screen, I have been told by people using it.
Granted I wind it way back, its another fault of the bigger commercial sims you see with massive amounts of movements, "We simulate the proper G force" , well I prefer to trick the brain with the right cues as high speed so it feels like the right G but moves onto the next before you have time to think about. My first go in a CKAS 2DOF , WTF I accelerated and the sim nearly pointed at the ceiling, mmm did I do a wheels stand in the car or what. A short sharp jolt down and back to centre, all in 0.1sec, is alot better than the massive slow movement.

I apologize to the starter of the post. Please make up your own mind.
Sorry Matt but 30-40Rpm is not even a min in my opinion for racing.

Thank you all for all the answers. I think ill stick with something similar to Motiondynamics.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-2000L...ailers_Transporters_Parts&hash=item3f0392a24f
Something like this, just mine has 300w writen on the box, very cheap china winches, borrowed from friend who was using them to pick up bicycles to the ceiling in the garage Also those winches are extremely loud, i guess half of the noise is made by gearbox but anyway they are really loud. Very low WAF
Also today i find out that they have very big free movement when changing from one side to another in the gearbox gears, all this plastic box is clunking and does not look like it could hold 1-2 hours of beating from one side to another. Son now another dilemma, if i need to change gearbox to use them, then it doesnt makes sense for me to use them and better to buy something like Motiondynamic motors straight away, as those two was borrowed, i dont really want to dismantle them.
Just i cant find anything similar in EU and sending Motiondynamic motors to EU i am afraid will double its price.
Find same looking motors on canadian ebay and they say it will take 8 weeks to ship them to EU, its two months...

@eaorobbie i Really Appreciate all the work you guys have done to keep all this community with all this information about Sim's. It is always the most efficient way to work when you can see other work examples and use all this knowledge that is collected and shared. Specially for people like me who dont have all required skills to make it possible. I can weld drill bend hammer but my biggest electronic experience is to solder two wires together Computer coding is even worse, long time ago i had lessons at school in 'pascal' and 'basic' languages but thats it, all i see here scares me, thats why i am so glad to find JRK solution. I can do 7 wires Also all those configuring windows looks much more friendly then arduino coding lines .

About motors maybe is better to start with wiper motors, can get them very cheap or free at yards, just to try how all stuff works and to get familiar with JRK's setup. Btw is it possible to connect JRK's to RC servos to imitate simulator??? This way i could play with all the setups and software and could skip wiper step. I just need to try how all this stuff works before starting to mess with iron tubes. I have to count WAF in this, it is better to know how it will work before i ruin all my living room with 'awful metal carcass' and then start to play with wires It has start to move in 2-3 days from the moment i will bring it to the living room, some people has limited amount of patience

Yes the winches are loud but for a full frame, they are the best to use because of their lift power.
If you are starting a frame, feel free to use wipers, but really, they are just not strong enough, hence going to big worm gear motors.
yes I am aware that the motors can take a while to find, so if you are starting with seat mover, use wipers and wait for big worm gear motors, the difference in motion between them is night and day.
I think @eaorobbie might know how to set up a JRK with servos.

You have built one sim that was not your own design, we appreciate your help, but you are competing with people whom, have 10 times more experience than you. 30-40 rpm is too slow for race. You should be cautious estimating as we know, we dont estimate.

No Jrks wont run servos, but Jrks can be run with servo commands, this is how I use to use them before discovering the Usb commands to run them, no one back them had attempted to use them, I was the only one for ages.

For running servos , I do have a code here in the resource section that works with 2 servos and can be easily adapted to 6 servos too.

http://www.xsimulator.net/community/marketplace/rc-model-code-for-arduino-uno-2dof-expandable.89/

There is a company in the UK selling motors of very similar spec, once my UK mate comes online I will get a link for you to look at.

"Mine is bigger than yours..." you are the one who competes, not me!
I'm just giving advices...

As you own the Truth, I'll will stop participating and only drink your valuable knowledge: you have copied and built many sims by trial and errors without knowing the basic Principle of moments... great deal!

Ok, @RacingMat , looks like you have made a valid comment, as said, just remember, Rob and I have built more sims that most here and have experienced trial and error from actual builds. not paperwork.

Hi @RacingMat, don't be so sensitive, and definitely do not stop participating. We all benefit from the advice posted on the Forum
(including your advice).

Mike