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Question Front Rear Traction Loss

Discussion in 'SimTools DIY Version' started by Erik Green, Jul 26, 2019.

  1. Erik Green

    Erik Green Member

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    If I were to build a platform with sliders bit front and rear, can SimTool handle both a front and rear actuator for traction loss? My thought is that with both front and rear, the software can use both actuators to define the pivot point where we it wants.

    Is this possible?
    Erik Green, Jul 26, 2019
    #1
  2. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    There is only one input for traction loss, it's simply the difference in the way the car is heading and the way the car is facing.
    So since both ends would be triggering of the same input, the pivot point will always be the same I'm afraid.
    Good thinking thou, defiantly out of the box.
    Take care!
    yobuddy
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
    yobuddy, Jul 26, 2019
    #2
  3. Erik Green

    Erik Green Member

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    Is yaw defined the same way, relative to the direction of travel?
    Erik Green, Jul 26, 2019
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  4. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Yaw is just a compass heading saying which way the vehicle is traveling.
    Take care
    yobuddy, Jul 26, 2019
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  5. Erik Green

    Erik Green Member

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    So if I built hardware like described with dual actuators and sway axis sliders i could use a small percentage of positive traction loss at the front and full TL on the rear which should simulate moving the rear wheels aft of the physical rear actuator location. The two actuators could also be used to output 'sway'.
    Erik Green, Jul 27, 2019
    #5
  6. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Do you have a design I could look at, hard to imagine.
    yobuddy, Jul 27, 2019
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  7. Erik Green

    Erik Green Member

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    Nothing yet.

    Picture a 2DOF frame where instead of a front pivot point the front and rear are mounted on linear bearing that move along the 'sway' axis. Both ends have actuators. So if both are driven same direction we have sway motion output. If only rear actuator we get traditional traction loss. If you drive the front opposite to the rear you can move the pivot point to somewhere between the two actuators based on percentage of each. 50% each would be pure yaw. Now, if you drive both the same direction with a small percentage at the front it should move the virtual pivot point forward of the front slider axis. Don't really want to move it muck forward of the pedal box is guess, but the effect should feel like a longer wheelbase to the rear wheels.
    In theory.
    Am I high?
    Thoughts.
    Erik Green, Jul 27, 2019
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  8. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    That should work I believe.
    Take care,
    yobuddy
    yobuddy, Jul 27, 2019
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  9. sberns

    sberns Member Gold Contributor

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    This looks very interesting...



    Maybe this could be done with front and rear traction loss actuators and putting both the front and rear of the rig on a pivot so each end could rotate independently. I would love to try a Traction loss setup like this - would probably simulate understeer as well. Could Simtools be adapted to allow for something like this?
    sberns, Aug 18, 2019
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  10. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    From looking at the video, it think the traction loss setup is responding to sway & traction loss.
    So I don't see any reason why we could not do the same thing buddy. :thumbs
    Take care,
    yobuddy
    • Agree Agree x 1
    yobuddy, Aug 19, 2019
    #10
  11. sberns

    sberns Member Gold Contributor

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    I’m not sure I understand - are you saying that the front traction movement is data derived from sway? I thought that the seat mover was responding to the surge and sway data but that the front traction movement was somehow calculated from front tire slip or something similar...
    sberns, Aug 19, 2019
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  12. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    You could very well be right buddy.
    From the video thou, i can see the sim sliding sideways with what appears to be sway?
    And I can see a bit of traction loss, but i don't really see just the front sliding out or anything.
    But maybe I'm just missing it, hard to tell from a video I suppose.
    yobuddy, Aug 19, 2019
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  13. dododge

    dododge Active Member Gold Contributor

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    They have another video with a few minutes of driving footage shown from several angles:



    At a glance it looks like there are currently just two basic movements: either both actuators move in unison to simulate sway, or the rear actuator moves independently to simulate traction loss.

    The design could technically support some sort of front slide-out or even a bit of yaw, but I'm guessing the NLR software does not currently handle that.
    dododge, Aug 21, 2019
    #13
  14. Erik Green

    Erik Green Member

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    So it would seem that to make a system like this work you would need the necessary data from the race software itself. That is you would need separate front and rear traction loss data to overlay/mix with the sway signal. perhaps the plugin developers would know if any of the packages include this type output data.
    Erik Green, Aug 21, 2019
    #14
  15. sberns

    sberns Member Gold Contributor

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    Agree it’s hard to tell from the initial video but you guys may be right that this is only sway and rear TL data. Interesting implementation. I wonder if it’s more immersive that typical implementations of sway?
    sberns, Aug 21, 2019
    #15
  16. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    I have seen a Indy car sim that worked like this before, can't remember where now thou.
    It was basically the same thing except the dual traction loss setup was on top of a surge table.
    (the sim had no roll and pitch, which probably was not a big deal for a Indy car sim)
    looked pretty cool as it had full size Indy cars on them, but seemed pretty slow as it was a full car alter all.

    Being that hardly any games have traction loss output at all, I just don't see how we would get a good dual front and back TL output for such a setup. But I have been wrong before lol. and if it's possible, we would just need a custom plugin.
    Take care,
    yobuddy
    • Like Like x 1
    yobuddy, Aug 21, 2019
    #16
  17. ZeGrundPilot

    ZeGrundPilot New Member

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    Did we work this one out? Sway or yaw on the from and TL in the back (AC Extra 1)? Sorry if I am resurrecting.

    Z
    ZeGrundPilot, May 21, 2023
    #17