Newbie question Prosimu/Next Level Racing

Hello,

I'm going to make my first experiences with a DOF soon and I need some assistance before I spend (too much) money.

I would like to buy a DOF for sim racing (Project Cars 2). I looked around and I like the Prosimu T1000 3M technical and price wise most. But there is one issue and thats the point I need some hints:
I'm mostly running formula cars using a VR headset. It was already a little challenge to get the steering wheel into the right position on my table, so that what I see in the VR headset is equal to where the wheel really is (and I'm a bit sensitive here).

Now looking at pictures and YouTube videos, I recognized that the steering wheel is in a very low position on the T1000. Now I don't know
- is it possible to lower the seat of the T1000 as much as I need? (I'm appr. 190cm tall).
- from a "sitting position" point of view, I think the Next Level Racing F-GT cockpit would be the best for me.

So my idea right now is either
a) to buy a F-GT and mount it on a Prosimu T1000 extension pack for a T1000 3M
or
b) make mechanical changes to the T1000 seat, so it fits to my requirements

a) is a bit more risky and might need some more changes
b) might result in a compromise (which would always bother me)

(making mechanical changes is not an issue for me)

Any suggestions, help, ideas would be very welcome

Thanks
Georg

Hi Georg,

You could look at our cockpit which has a very wide range of adjustability and will accommodate users your height. You could also use it with our s2 deck which incorporates surge and traction loss which is far more in line with what you would expect a formula car to feel like rather than tipping you forwards and backwards as if the shocks have gone. Included is a self tensioning harness as well and the deck will accommodate other cockpits.

Have a look at www.symdeck.com

Regards,

Levers

Hello Levers,

thanks for the information - but I like the concept of the moving platform of the T1000 -especially the PRS200 parts.

Georg

Hi Georg,

That is obviously your prerogative but I'd like to understand the reasoning behind your decision not just from a supplier point of view but personally as well. The T1000 is a static cockpit and you've stated you might not even be able to set it up in a position you will be comfortable but will put up with it. The motion system you will add can only give you pitch and roll or with 4 actuators heave yet you wish to replicate formula cars which have the least amount of pitch and roll of any type of car. So any motion rig with a pogo stick in each corner will give you the same feeling accelerating as going through Eau Rouge/Raidillon.

Several years ago when we were first developing our products, my business partner and I tried a £30,000 motion sim which was a single seater a bit like an Atom with actuators where the shocks would be. It even had the springs over them; it looked very impressive although you saw none of it once you put the VR headset on. However, once I got going it was like I was driving over a ploughed field. The circuit, Donington Park, is quite undulating but every time I accelerated I thought I was going up a hill that wasn't there and the same with braking and going down hill. When I did come to a hill or drop the motion felt no different and what really screwed it up was braking going uphill or accelerating going downhill. We tried several others as well and this just confirmed to us we were on the right path and not to just go with the crowd.

We've spoken to several people who run arcade/sim experiences who've got rid of the motion ones because too many people were being sick although they drive every day because their inner ears were telling them something different to what their eyes were seeing.

I understand that a lot of people have bought this type of system but I/we don't get it so can you or anybody else please explain to me why you choose that type of set up?

Thanks,

Levers

Hi Noorbeast,

Thank you for your contribution. What you are saying though is that the effect of pitch should be short and sharp to replicate surge but then say that having a surge axis is limited by travel. A short sharp nudge is exactly what our rig gives but it's linear. A rig that pitches only has so much travel and you would want to save some for the actual pitch of the vehicle. We have our own Symseat for PC https://symdeck.com/symseat-pc/ or console https://symdeck.com/symseat-console/ with sustained forces in the back rest and they work really well but you still can't beat the feeling of the inertia from the whole rig moving. It can even affect how you are pressing the pedals.

Yes, whatever system you have is a compromise but having tried several of them, given the choice of only 2 actuators I would choose surge and traction loss over pitch and roll so I'm asking the question as to why most rigs choose the other 2 when at the car shows we've exhibited at racing drivers even prefer our surge only sim over conventional 2 or 3 DOF systems.

Whatever system you use/choose though can only help with a bit of escapism in our current situation.

It is/was not my intention to confuse anything. All I was asking was why some people prefer one design choice over another.

We do offer pitch and roll in our products but it's only used where the telemetry of the vehicle says it should be used.

"All I was asking was why some people prefer one design choice over another."

Well, in my case there are several reasons
1) Prosimu shows very impressive what their system is able to do
2) It looks like how I expect a motion platform for racing should look like - the actors are looking like dampers
3) The price is a big plus (argh, they just increased the price by 100€)
4) The technical data of the PRS200 is a big plus
5) It is clearly defined how to upgrade and which upgrades are available
6) Well and then it is a matter of gut feeling, of course

And - sorry to say - but the Brexit doesn't help as well. That might be a "non reason" but I don't want to get stuck in customs in case I need a spare part. That might be not the case, but that is part of the "gut feeling".

Hi Georg,

Thanks for your feedback. It was already on our 'to do' list to put more info on the site. I would say though that our 1 and 2 DOF systems are competitively priced.

Your second point is very interesting though and this is what I was trying to get to. As this is how everybody else does it, it must be right. We started from scratch with no preconceived ideas of what it should 'look' like but how it feels. The very first one we ended up with has surge only because this is the force you feel the most especially braking and only required one motor. We've than added to that but the surge feeling still remains in all of our products.

All of our platforms enclose the mechanics and electronics are designed so that people with most other static setups can put them on top of the deck to add motion. However having owned and tried lots of other cockpits we decided to design our own.

Your original requirement was for formula car racing which as I said has the least amount of suspension travel yet it's interesting this is what attracts you to the other sim. These cars would have the highest surge and sway forces as well and to me you can only get a very small hint of what these feel like when the actuators are pointing 90 degrees to the force they are trying to replicate. We've had several people ask for our s1 deck to put underneath their 'traditional' looking motion rigs to add that very force.

Regarding Brexit, whilst I believe it is completely unnecessary trading will continue.

It would be interesting to hear how you get on with your new setup but i hope you enjoy it.