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Problems with my USB 1.3's

Discussion in 'SimTools compatible interfaces' started by yobuddy, Aug 21, 2007.

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  1. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    I have built 2 USB 1.3’s. This weekend I hooked up the valves without pressure to the USB 1.3 boards and powered the boards for the first time. Both of the boards power on and get recognized by windows, and I am able to use RnR13Test to verify that the boards work.

    The problem I am having is that the #2 valve does not activate with either board, but does light the LED indicator on the valve. So it appears to be working but not delivering enough power to trip the valve. I am running 24v valves and have used a 50v cap for C5 and a 63v Cap for C4. Not sure what to try next?


    [​IMG]

    Any help would be appreciated.
    Thanks!

    yobuddy
    yobuddy, Aug 21, 2007
    #1
  2. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    Congrats that they get recognised, at least!

    Have you tried to switch the valves, in order to see if there is a problem within the valves?
    If not, then you might have burned a transitstor and you have to replace it.

    illi told me, that the 5/3 valves need pressure to work correctly. Perhaps some air would solve your problem. If the lights on the valves enlighten all, then there should be no Problem with the interface.

    BTW, what capacity do have your caps? I use 470nF on the transistor side, and 10nF on the PIC side.

    And your pots. Are the raw values displayed correctly?

    ego
    egoexpress, Aug 21, 2007
    #2
  3. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    I have fully tested the valves and they seem to work properly.

    I moved the wires from valve 1 to valve 2 and when I click valve 1 with RnR13Test valve 2 operates correctly.

    For the cap's I used 100uf on the transistor side, and 10uF on the PIC side.

    The LED that lights on the #2 valve is pretty dim. I am using the same PIC in both boards but since the LED does come on, it leads me to believe it is working - the PIC anyway.

    Both Pot's are displaying the raw values correctly.

    I suppose the first thing to try is a new transistor?

    Thanks!


    yobuddy
    yobuddy, Aug 21, 2007
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  4. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    Change the transistor, and try to hold the soldering iron as short as possible on the transistor pins. And wait at least 20 sec in between the soldering actions.
    Change the diode, wich leads to the transistor as well. (And watch out for the correct diode mounting direction!)

    And use a solder sucker ;)

    The resistor should be OK.

    ego
    egoexpress, Aug 21, 2007
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  5. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    You should hold the interface in front of a strong light source, and watch out for shortcuts caused by solder spots as well....
    egoexpress, Aug 21, 2007
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  6. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    And keep in mind, that the connections are not continious!

    [​IMG]
    egoexpress, Aug 21, 2007
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  7. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Well I have changed the transistor and the diode only to have the same results.
    I have a good 10x magnifying glass with a light I used to check the board for problems, but the board looks good.
    I hooked the valves up according to illi’s layout.

    [​IMG]

    I used a multimeter to check and resistors and for broken traces and they all check out. Valve #2 does toggle 24v on and off according to the multimeter but it is acting like it is not passing very much current as it only dimly lights an LED.

    yobuddy
    yobuddy, Aug 22, 2007
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  8. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    Imho its a little shortcut somwhere, caused by solder, where a part of the current slips away. I have had a problem once with a PCB, where a lead was connected to another, though it shouldn't. It was a etching fault.

    And you are sure that all diodes are mounted in the right direction? Because two of them have to lay in contrariwise direction. See picture:

    [​IMG]

    If that does not solve your problem, then please scan your interface, and let us see it.
    egoexpress, Aug 22, 2007
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  9. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    I agree, but what could be the solution? He changed the transistor and the diode already.

    Could it be, that the high/low signal from the Pic to the transistor is not clear? Perhaps a problem with the PIC?

    @yobuddy

    Is the prob with Port #2 within one board only, or both? Or have you, by chance, installed a votage regulator instead of a transistor? ;)
    egoexpress, Aug 22, 2007
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  10. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    Das Wort either war mir in diesem Zusammenhang nicht geläufig ;)
    egoexpress, Aug 22, 2007
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  11. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Ok, I have some pic’s of the board.

    [​IMG]

    Im woundering if I should connect a resistor like shown in the pic below (red line) to see if the pic chip is the problem.

    [​IMG]

    If the problem transfers to valve #3 then its the pic chip, what do you guys think?

    Thanks for all the help!
    I appreciate it!

    yobuddy
    yobuddy, Aug 22, 2007
    #11
  12. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    The solder job looks clean.

    Just this area, where you replaced the diode. Is it ok, for sure?
    [​IMG]

    Yes, perhaps you should try to switch Nr.2 to Nr.3 then.

    Just to be sure. Is the problem just with one board, or with both?
    egoexpress, Aug 22, 2007
    #12
  13. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Yes it is a good connection according to the multimeter, with no bridges.
    It's a little ugly because I replaced the diode.
    I ordered a new pic chip, but it will take a few days to get here.
    I'm going to try the resistor idea and will report my results a little later.

    Neither board will trip valve #2
    But my other board has problems with valve #8 also; it only activates the valve 50% of the time. So I went with the board with the least problems.

    Thanks for the help!

    yobuddy
    yobuddy, Aug 22, 2007
    #13
  14. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    I have burned some transistors as well in my first attempts. It could be possible, that you burned transistor #2 twice ;)
    And #8 as well...:)

    2 transistor exploded with bang and smoke even ;)
    egoexpress, Aug 22, 2007
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  15. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    I went ahead and crisscrossed the resistors on valve #2 and #3.


    [​IMG]


    I can now activate valve #3 and cannot activate valve #2 so my pic chip seems to be ok. And I’m more confused than ever but I believe this concludes that the problem is with valve #2 line on the board and it is either the suffuse mount resistor, the plugging resistor the diode or the transistor.

    I suppose I’ll try changing the transistor again?

    Thanks!

    yobuddy
    yobuddy, Aug 23, 2007
    #15
  16. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    You burned the transistor twice :mrgreen:

    They dont like heat. Set the temp regulator to 350degrees and make sure to have not longer contact with the solder iron than 3sec. And wait between ever action at least 20sec. I put after every solder action my thumb on the part, before I solder once again, in order to check the temp. But watch out, dont burn your fingers ;)

    Once, I had a branding of a LM7805 on my thumb. Including drill hole ;)
    egoexpress, Aug 23, 2007
    #16
  17. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    Weird, in the data sheet of the PIC 16C745 is written

    Maximum output current sunk by any I/O pin.............................................25 mA
    egoexpress, Aug 23, 2007
    #17
  18. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Thanks for all the replies,

    I’m sorry sirnoname, I’m not sure how to calculate a new resistor and your talking about the plugging 5.1k resistor right?

    yobuddy
    yobuddy, Aug 23, 2007
    #18
  19. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Please correct me if I’m wrong, I believe your telling me to replace the 47k surface mount resistor with a 10k surface mount resistor?

    I have a 1k surface mount resistor here, but not a 10k, should I try the 1k?

    Thanks for all the help!

    yobuddy
    yobuddy, Aug 23, 2007
    #19
  20. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    Replace the 47K SMDs with 1K SMDs. Try it at first at transistor #2.
    egoexpress, Aug 23, 2007
    #20
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