Race 07 and GTRE Profiles - 150mm SCN5 - SimXperience II

Profile Details
Game: Race 07 or GTR Evolution
Intended Sim Hardware: 2 SCN5 Frex-Style design (On-Road)
Actuators: 150mm
25% Limiter: Yes
Math Plugins Used: 1:1 G-Force, Percent Scaler
Designed for Specific Vehicle: No- All Race 07 Vehicles
Includes Program Settings: Yes. Optimized for Quad Processor. Do not load program settings if you do not have a quad-core
Includes Gauges: No
Speed / Acceleration Values: Speed: Speed and acceleration values are set in Synaptrix automatically after profile is loaded & the sender is started.

Smooth Realistic Movement With Percent Scaler - Last updated - 01/05/2009
This profile simulates vertical, leteral and longitudal forces, and is configured to remove excessive values via the percent scaler.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RMrq2Z2AuE
Race 07 With Speed And Accel.zip

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles

I have to say this profile is excellent. :thbup:

No more flying out of the seat :lol:

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles

Let's see who will present the worlds first video of a X-Sim powered SCN5 Racing simulator

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles

Thanks. I'm working on adding collision effects and vertical wheel hop to the over the next few days.

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles for SCN5

So I see that for Race07 the most useful effects are:

23 - Gear Rumple
25 - Lateral Force
26 - Vertical Force
27 - Longitudinal Force

The profile uses 25 and 27, yet I can feel all kinds of vibrations, bumps and the movement when shifting gears.
What are 23 and 26 used for?

For input 27, it is split in two, is that because of acceleration and stopping? Or what is the reason? How did you come up with the max numbers? What represents 1G?

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles for SCN5

You are right, these are the most useful effects, except for maybe the gear rumple effect in our case. Maybe someone else can shed some light on it's purpose.I believe that the gear rumple effect would be for simulator design that are not using 25 & 27 or are using pitch, roll, etc.. The gear shift effect is made realistic by the change in longitudal g-forces. When using paddle shifters, I think that Race 07 exagerates the gear shift effect (by hange in longitudal g-forces) relative to a real race car. I had to turn down speed and acceleation values to make it so that I wasnt getting punched in the head by my seat. At one point I tried applying the gear rumple effect inverted to see if I could make it offset the longitudal g-force change so that I didnt have to turn down speed and acceleration quite as far, but I was unsuccessful.

The longitudal values are split because that is the way that the game/plugin exports them (in positive and negative values).

When I make a profile, I usually add a 1:1 G-Force Effect and enable auto-adjustment of min and max numbers and run a few laps without wrecking. Thanks to egoexpress for this advice. I've found that it is best to set the 'mpact on axis' to 0% while running these few laps. Also, make sure that you are running with a track/vehicle combination that will produce the most extreme values. Then go back to the g-force effect and disable the auto-values and increase the 'impact on axis value'. After this, any further adjustments to the min and max values are a matter of personal preference, and trying not to run out of actuator in a high g-force corner, etc..

I am not aware of any magic number that represents 1g. I dont believe that X-Sim works like this. It scales the input value out over your in/max range and outputs it to the actuator.

I think I should make a video on how to create a profile. I will have a camcorder soon, so I wil be able to work actual actuator videos into my screen capture videos to make the tutorial more useful.

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles for SCN5

Easy to say, I was not able to do a single lap without wrecking with this thing - but a good way to start, I will try some things. 8)

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles for SCN5

Did you forget to set the impact on axis value to 0? Each time you wreck, you should go back and reset the values to 1 btw.

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles for SCN5

Effekt 23 is not needed at all. Afaik it is useful for games where only ForceFeedback effects are available. Within the longitudinal data you're getting enough gear rumble (gear-shift) effects.

As well the collision effect is not needed when the game supports long/lat/vert effects. It plays back some shaking, when a specific magnitude rises above a predefined limit.

Vertical effects represent altidude data like curbs, bumps or track-surface. They are very important for a good profile.

maximum values are different for accelleration and braking.
For example RACE07, though driving without any aids, has some kind of ABS activated, which causes the braking mangnitude to be less high than the accelleration magnitude. With splitting min/max you can tweak that a little. Though it would be more realistic to leave it unsplitted imho.

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles for SCN5

Ok, so how will vertical values help when there is already shaking and movement from street bumps and curbs from just the longitudinal and lateral effects? Can we even tell a difference? How would they mix if the bumps/curbs etc are already provided without the vertical?

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles for SCN5

Without beeing able to test is by myself, I guess it could be some noise or ingame axes interaction/overlay. Perhaps you could try to rise the minium values of long and lat a little to cut off the noise, and add the vertical axis then.
But I am not sure in this point. Just guessing...

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles for SCN5

That makes sense. But it would be hard to tell if it is better or worse.

The profile with the scaler has stronger forces, I really can't tell which one would be better. I guess most people will have to try all kinds of things until they have all the forces the way they want them. Maybe there will be some guidelines (something like first use g-forces, then this, then that etc), after everything is figured out better.

I'm not sure what the purpose of acceleration and speed is. The math setup is assigned to the positions (in the Synaptrix), but what to do with the acceleration/speed?

For the Koenigsegg you almost need a seatbelt. :rofl:

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles for SCN5

The shaking and movement that exists in the profiles uploaded is there by design. I spent quite a bit of time finding values that made those subtle movements seem more realistic. That shaking and movement from street bumps is lateral only at this point and I believe it is mostly lateral wheel hop and road surface. At least thats what I tried to make it feel like. The vertical forces I hope will add vertical wheel hop such as when your brakes are locked up, and additional feel of the road surface. I don't have it worked out yet.

Also, I was wondering if your seat has any movement/sway in it that might be causing it to feel more excessive? I don't experience what you are describing with the same actuators, profile and speed/accel settings. I am however going to be testing with my seatbelt today to see if it adds to the realism by keeping me glued to the seat.

I've been testing a suggestion from egoexpress that I reverse the left and right invert axis options of the lateral forces. The idea being that when I turn left, the seat goes right. I created the previous profile with the opositew intent. Unfortunately, reversing those values has sent me down the path of trying to find a more realistic feel when cornering this way. I have alot more more tweaking to do, but I will probably have a profile designed that way sometime tonight to upload.

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles for SCN5

It is very tricky. I don't think I could honestly tell if a wheel locked up or if it's bump or what. Maybe when all the forces can be made to interact the right way.

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Also, I was wondering if your seat has any movement/sway in it that might be causing it to feel more excessive? I don't experience what you are describing with the same actuators, profile and speed/accel settings. I am however going to be testing with my seatbelt today to see if it adds to the realism by keeping me glued to the seat.
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The seat has no movement at all. It can be that my idea of movement is different, that will happen with everybody, some will say it's like this, some say like that and so on and so forth forever. I think your settings are good, but I don't know what would feel right in real cars at such speeds.

The actuator speed is set in the SCN5 plugin settings, but that is only the initial speed, it doesn't affect anything in the game itself. Or is that not right?
The synaptrix has the actuator positions set to use the math setups, I don't know what to do with the acceleration setting and speed setting in there, do you use those at all?

And yes, if you turn hard one way you get pushed the other way, so it is right that the seat should go the opposite when turning.

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles for SCN5

This is a mistaken statement. The speed and acceleration settings in the SCN5 Plugin have a dramatic effect on in game movement. They are one of the most important pieces of fine tuning, which I why I was asking for a way to distribute them with the

Please re-read my post that you downloaded the profile from (the beggining of this one). It clearly states that you cannot properly evaluate the profile without setting the speed and acceleration settings in the SCN5 profile to the values that I provided in the post. No wonder you think it's so crazy and can't tell when you are experiencing wheel hop, etc..

Please let me know if it makes the same difference for you as it does for me, and if you are able to distinguish between wheel hop and road surface vibration after changing the settings.

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles for SCN5

I did set them. I was wondering if there's any other part that needs set. Here is what sirnoname posted in the other thread:

No, they are only used from the short time of homing to center position at the beginning of the software.
After this the synaptrix will control them (the other two scn5 outputs, that are displayed in the interface setup).
They will be controlled fixed, dynamically or in filter steps. (for now fixed)
They will therefore stored in the plugin itself, never in the rn2 file.

I read this as the settings in the interface setup are only used when starting up to center the actuators.
The other two scn5 outputs in the synaptrix are the acceleration and speed, but I'm not sure what to do with them, it reads as in they are fixed to a certain value.

Those should be dynamic somehow, sometimes it needs to accelerate faster, sometimes slower, depending on what is happening, but maybe it is not possible.

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles for SCN5

I assume surface is the smoother hopping and any violent shakes are wheel hopping. But it can be wheel hopping because of road surface, so it is mixed. For example the front straight at Oschersleben (2007), it's ok, and then 3/4th down the front straight there is a violent bump. Is this a bump in the road, a wheel hop or both?
Then hard left, hard right and it is a long right corner and it's shaking really hard thorugh that corner.

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles for SCN5

I will try to get a camera to film some of it, see what you think. Maybe you can do that as well, we can use the same track/car and compare.

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles for SCN5

I guess for me, it's a bit different because of having been on the real tracks and having advice from drivers who know these surfaces well.

A bump in the road is mostly vertical wheel hop unless you don't hit it straight on or hit it while cornering, then it is partly lateral g wheel hop. Lateral g wheel hop is when the tires are sliding on the surface getting partial grip and then releasing causing a change in lateral g-forces. Vertical g wheel hop is part of this same process. Its the part thats felt right when the tire releases on re-grabs traction. Basically, its when the suspension is bouncing up and down, either from bumps or wheel hop, or ABS, or over-braking and causing wheel hop. You can tell that my first profile is missing vertical wheel hop on when braking as hard as possible, you won't feel the ABS or hopping of the car as it gets and loses traction. I have a new profile that corrects this, I just need to finish fine tuning it.

Not to be a smart a$$ but did you set the speed and acceleration values for both actuators, and then leave the SCN5 plugin and come back and ensure that each actuator kept its setting? What you are describing doesnt make any sense. The profile that I uploaded is intentionally mild, and is not violent or shaky in any way in any vehicle so I just want to make sure.

Re: SimXperience II - Race 07 and GTRE Profiles for SCN5

Here is the latest profile with Vertical G Forces included as well as some additional travel. As usual, I have tested the heck out of it (In F3000, WTCC & GTP) to make sure that there were no dead-spots. If you find one, or have any comments regarding possible improvements, please post back.

Also, this version has corrected the inverse lateral g- problem. Thanks to egoexpress for pointing it out.

I will update the first post as well.

Profile Details
Game: Race 07 or GTR Evolution
Intended Sim Hardware: 2 SCN5 Frex-Style design (On-Road)
Actuators: 150mm
25% Limiter: Yes
Math Plugins Used: 1:1 G-Force
Designed for Specific Vehicle: No- All Race 07 Vehicles
Includes Program Settings: Yes. Optimized for Quad Processor. Do not load program settings if you do not have a quad-core
Includes Gauges: No
Speed / Acceleration Values: Speed-7943 & 550 (If you need more effects, increase these values. If the effects are too much, decrease them.)

bvillersjr - Race07 With Vert Beta.zip