Race 07 Effect 24 / Velocity Effects?

In the Race 07 Plugin, Effect 24 is listed as acceleration speed? What is the intended use of this effect? Is this meant to be applied in the same way as the rFactor Plugin's Effects 36-38?

In the rFactor Plugin, I am able to apply effects 36 & 37 to the SCN5 Actuators speed which makes a major improvement in the realism. I am trying to figure out how to do this with Race 07. It seems that this data isn't included in the Plugin but I want to make sure that I'm not missing something.

If this data is not included, does anyone even know if it exists in the memory mapped file for extraction or is this a difference between rFactor and Race 07 that I will have to live with? I think the improvement in realism with dynamic actuator speed is enough to cause me to run rFactor as opposed to Race 07 if it isn't available.

I've experienced that the gearshake effect is caused strong enough by the longitudinal axis effect. I cannt see the neccessarity for effect 22.

Regards
Christian

I think these are the values that we need in order to apply speed dynamically to the SCN5. Unfortunately, they are not included inb the plugin in their raw X,Y,Z acceleration values. They are only included as these values divided by 9.81 to represent G-Forces. Any chance we could get these included? Setting the SCN5's speed dynamically makes a major realsim difference.

These are the values we are using already. Sirnoname simply renamed them. Float just indicates that they are declared as floating point numbers.

We simply need a PID output, which is in the works still. Thanos controller has implemented it (at least proportioal control), and it works very well. The speed is adjusted regarding the difference between actual value and target value. No shaking when driving straight forward, and speed is set dynamically.

Regards

For Buttkckers. Ok, I've got it. :thbup:

OK, now I'm confused. I created two new axis in my math setup and named them as follows:

-Left Actuator Velocity
-Right Actuator Velocity

In the Synaptrix I mapped Right and Left Actuator velocity to SCN5 Left Actuator Speed and SCN5 Right Actuator Speed instead of position

Then I created some math that uses the rFactor Plugin's effects for X,Y & Z SPEED

So now I have 4 Axis in my math setup. 2 for position (left and right) and 2 for Velocity (actuator speed left and right)

The rfactor Plugin exports X,Y & Z G-Force and X,Y, & Z Speed.

What I am asking for is the same for Race 07, which currently only appears to export X, Y & Z G-Force and not velocity. It looks like it would be the same values except for not divided by 9.81.

I have successfully mapped rFactor Effects 36 & 37 (Local Velocity X & Local Velocity Y) to SCN5 Speed. I cannot tell you how these values were intended to be used, but I can tell you that they vary the effect this produces feels reasonable. So whatever they are, they seem to scale well to actuator speed.

In the manual or not, they are in the Plugin and named 36-Local Velocity X, 37-Local Velocity Y & 38-Local Velocity Z. They seem to indicate the speed that effects 25,26 & 27 should occur. Therefore I mapped them to actuator speed and while I have more testing to do, I haven't had any issues so far.[/quote]

How can I help to verify this? Email the game maker?

I don't see how this is possible given what I know of the Math setup and the fact that the Race 07 plugin does not output these velocity values that can be directly applied to an actuator. I started this thread in hopes that we could add such values that can be directly mapped to an actuator to the Race 07 plugin as well. If you want to PM the source to the Race 07 plugin, I will do my best to learn how to do this and make the required modifications.

Finally, am I missing something here or not understanding something properly? There seems to be alot of confusion and miscommunication in this thread.



Regards
SirNoname[/quote]

I have verified that the speed values are NOT map oriented, and are therefore potentially useful in mapping to SCN5 speed inputs. I have created a profile for rFactor using these values as speed inputs and have posted the result in the form of a profile and cooresponding video.

My question remains the same as it was in the beginning of this thread and as as follows:

The Race 07 Plugin does not appear to output these values in the form of X, Y & Z speed like the rFactor Plugin does. What do I need to do in order to get these added to the plugin? I would be more than happy to do the work if someone can point me in the right direction.

Also, while we are at it, since we have (in rFactors case) and may have in Race 07's case, the speed values, could we not then calculate accelerartion values based on the change of these speed values over time?

If so, this would allow for the creation of a plugin that provides optimal data for an SCN5 (speed, acceleration and position). Ultimately I would think that this would produce the most realistic feeling motion, which is my goal.

I understand that this will probably not be easy work, but I am determined to see this accomplished. I am aware of tutorials about locating data in MMF files. I am not aware of any doocumentation on Plugin creation or modification, or any source code for what is already known about these MMF file to build upon.

Please advise.

Yes, I have Visual Studio 2008, but I do not have GTR2. If it is required to move forward, I can purchase it. Where will I find the sample code for the Nascar Plugin?

Yes, please!

I guess the Nascar would be fine to look at as an example.

Is there a defined process for how one goes about contributing to a plugin? It is a little confusing that I would like to dig further into the Race 07 Plugin and am receiving code for Nascar or iRacing?

I guess this is fine, because I can always use the Nascar example and SimBin MMF documentation to re-create my own Race 07 plugin, but how does that help the community.

I am preparing my development environment for C++ development. It's been a LONG time since I've used that language. Before I go too far down the road of re-creating a Race 07 Plugin with the hopes of improving upon the outputs for SCN5 users, I would like to validate a couple of thoughts.

1.) Is it reasonable to believe that the most realistic motion will be achieved when sending the SCN5's position, speed and acceleration as opposed to sending only position and having speed and acceleration be fixed values?

2.) Am I accurate in my determination that neither the rFactor or Race 07 plugin can provide all three of these values currently?

Basicall, my question is: Do those with prior plugin development experience and knowledge of SCN5's believe that this is a worthwhile task?

This question has been outstanding for some time now. Is there not anyone who believes that it would be an improvement to supply the SCN5's with speed and acceleration values as well as position values?

@egoexpress? @SirNoName? Anyone?

If not, please help me to understand why.

Afaik the SCN5 plugin outputs direct positions currently, and the SCN5 controller itself drives the rod with defineable but fixed speed to these positions. As well the accelleration is a fixed value.

However, the SCN5 controller offers another positioning method. The command is named: follow.
This command includes some kind of proportional code.
It should be similar to Thanos proportional code, wich sets the speed/accelleration in proportion to the target value distance.
Have a look at Christians Simulator, which uses Thanos' proportional code:
post12019.html#p12019
Imho it moves very well, though it lacks the vertical axis effects currently, I think.

I've asked Sirnoname several times about this follow function, but until now he respited to explain me clearly, why he doesnt use it. There may be a reason which I am not aware of. But for now I think this is the way to go.


regards

Thanks for the reply!

I am not aware of this follow function, I will look at the SCN5 programming documentation and Dyadic programming tools that I received from Mirai more closely.

I am a little confused though about why this function is necessary. In the Synaptrix, I have inputs for the following:

-Left Actuator Position
-Right Actuator Position
-Left Actuator Acceleration
-Right Actuator Acceleration
-Left Actuator Speed
-Right Actuator Speed

When I create a new axis with math values intended for the speed column, and apply that axis to left/right actuator speed input, it does dynamically set the speed. My issue is that the current plugins do not output the appropriate values that would allow me to create an axis with appropriate speed/acceleration values.

Would this follow function improve on the current functionality? More specifically, could it receive a position, speed, acceleration in one command? That would be the ideal situation assuming that we can get the plugins to the point where they output appropriate speed & acceleration values, and that a calibration offset can be utilized to ensure that the speed/accel values never drop below an acceptable minumum.

If I understand you correctly, then you are saying that acceleration should be a fixed value given the design of the SCN5's. What about speed? I have a realism checklist that I use to evaluate each of my profiles. I will clean it up and upload it. I have never been able to successfully meet my own realism criteria. Maybe rather than starting at this level within the software, I will start by posting my goals and explaining which of those that I am unable to achieve to my satisfaction. Maybe there is anoth way to solve my problems.

Let's talk about the improvement of the method of using local XYZ speed effects to control acuator speed.
Afaik there is no further calulation for this procedure currently, which leads to weird behaviour in some cases.
Imho it just makes sense if we just take the velocity change for each action.

Take the vehicle braking procedure for example:
If using the local z speed for actuator speed, you will get different actuator speeds when braking at 200kmh or 50kmh.
A solution could be to ad a delta V counter to the actuator speed math that resets itself everytime the effect value changes direction (increase/decrease)

A maximum value could be defined to ensure constant effects while braking from 200khm to 0kmh. If 50 is the max value for example, the result above max delta V will be the the same, even if delta V is 200.

Here is an idea for the accelleration procedure:

Code:

 accelleration                  -  0-50kmh  -> |0-50| 
 gearshift      - counter reset - 50-49kmh  -> |0-(-1)|  
 accelleration  - counter reset - 49-100kmh -> |0-51|
 gearshift      - counter reset - 100-99kmh -> |0-(-1)|
 accelleration  - counter reset - 99-150kmh -> |0-51|

(||= value regardles the prefix)

Btw, when braking, the counter resets at 200kmh for example, and counts backwards from 200kmh=|0|; 150kmh=|-50|; 100kmh=|-100|; etc...

What do you think about this approach?

Regards
Christian

I think he is telling us that the maximum accelleration and speed have to be set that way, that the actuators dont reach the target value before receiving the next target.

Most likely there is just a little value area that meets this requirement without adding unneccessary lag.

Regards

:thbup: This seems like a good idea! I assume that you would intend this same concept to be applied to lateral forces as well?

If I understand correctly then we would use a fixed acceleration value and could add an output into the plugin that is purposed for actuator speed or is this math intended to occur in the math setup and utilize a new plugin? I like the idea of using a delta for it to ensure a minimum & maximum acceptable value exists. Presently I am using a symetrical offset for the math lines of the left/right actuator speed axis' that I created.


I am creating a seperate thread regarding realism evaluations of a profile. I intend to use this checklist to communicate where I am having difficulty achieving realistic effects in the future.

No, regarding my suggestion the actuator speed would be set dynamically as well, but the triggering min-max value range wouldnt be the full range between 0kmh and max speed, but from 0 to 50 for example, independant from the ingame vehicle speed, as just the delta V would go into the calculation.