Simtools vs Sim Commander - how do they compare?

Hi guys
Is there anyone here who has used both softwares?
I was told Simtools is faster and it uses the game's rawdata whereas Simx uses their own algorithms somhow calculating how they expect motion is supposed to be based on what's happening in game (sorry if it's not a very precise way to put it). So it seems like it's about who's capturing how a car reacts in a better way, Simx or the programmer of the sim, i.e. rFactor, GSC Extreme, AC or iracing. A sim with unrealistic physics would result in unrealistic motion and if you think the guys with rFactor or iracing for instance are better than Simx you should rather consider going for Simtools provided they translate the signals from the game into motion correctly. Am I right there?
It would be great if guys who know both would share their experiences and knowledge.
Cheers

Many of the senior member's on the site have had the opportunity to play on a Retail SimX kit, Im sure they will be more than happy to express their opinions.

Didnt I already cover this?
Just a thought @Thirsty , you said "A sim with unrealistic physics would result in unrealistic motion"
Those are words of a software seller that doesnt want people to change the software they have paid too much for.
Granted I havent used simcommander, but the work of @nclabs is allowing people top convert over for some obvious reasons.
Simtools is FREE and offline usable.
Simtools has more plugins
Simtools is faster in plugin response time.
After beta testing x-sim 3 , of which simcommander is based off the same source code, I can tell you straight up, the first time I beta tested simtools, it only had sway , surge and heave. 3 forces comapared to 6 forces from the other.
I have NEVER felt more refined motion. I could feel individual bumps of each actuator/motor. I could actually feel the difference going around corners of tracks. Thats RAW data.
I have had less errors and problems with software to motor controllers since as well.
Simtools is adjustable in the main settings to settle some big jolts.
Now Simtools has 6 forces.
You have nothing to loose trying it out, maybe have to make an adaptor plug to set up , but thats about it.
Dave

EDIT, yes @Nick Moxley I did pay to play on a simx kit. It was rfactor the game, and to be honest I got better motion on the same track, same game with Simtools running. I could feel the plugin response time, simcommander slow, Simtools spot on

Hi Dave
Yeah, pretty much all the information I got about this is from you - big thanks down to Sydney It seems there aren't many around who have in-depth knowledge about both. I guess it's pretty hard anyway as Simx will keep their stuff secret of course.
I just try to get as much info on that as I can. Would be great to hear from someone who is familiar with Simcommander and Simtools and can share some of his experiences with both of them.
It's a very interesting question who's capable of capturing physics better, Simx or the guys with iracing, rfactor or whatever sim. I don't like iracings physics too much, but it seems like they are putting in great effort in building a virtual car and if I remember correctly they've got access to telemetry data and all that. Wonder if Simx has the capacity to compete with that when creating a car's physics using their own algorithms.
I'm still welding on my rig so I got time to sort that out.
Cheers

@yobuddy , I think you may be able to explain in more depth the difference between Simcommander and Simtools

The only people in Sydney I know of are Ultimate Karting in Narellan. I went and paid to play on the simx units. They paid too much money for setups that are really poor frame design. Even they spent $400 per sim, for each yearly licence for the motion software. They have 4 units there. I spoke to them and they were far from impressed at the level of service from Bernard and others during the contracted process of building them. I shows them the Simtools site (this one) and left it as that.

@Thirsty, All softwares initially access the same telemetry data from game titles. Yobuddy has stated that Simtools passes thru raw data from them. It still must be sized to fit your chosen output resolution and tuning perimeters of course but I don't believe there is any further processing to muddy up the data like in the other softwares.

Thanks for the feedback guys
Yeah, it's really not easy to make up your mind about this. It's really great having such a helpful community around offering motion software and support just for a thank you.
Same thing with that Opensimwheel project. On the other hand you got companies selling their stuff for lots of money and some of them don't even bother answering an email.
I will have the chance to try out my first 100% diy motion rig in Brissie over the Christmas break. That guy is using X-sim software. Would have been great if he used Simtools, but it's still interesting for me to see what the software looks like and how motion feels. Dave, you said Simtools was easier and better if I remember correctly. So I think it will still give me some indication what to expect from a non-commercial solution.
Cheers

@Thirsty, when I said above that all softwares access the same telemetry data, I meant they do when it is made available from the games developer. Other methods can be used to extract telemetry data when the developer doesn’t support extraction however and the methods used and data extracted may vary between motion softwares.

I find Simtools has a faster response time than x-sim software and a shorter learning curve also. It also supports many more titles but you may already know that. So, when you have a go on the x-sim rig, just keep in mind that it may not be a good representation of what you can achieve when using Simtools software.

I beta tested x-sim3 for over a year and each update didnt really advance much for me.
The first time I went to Simtools , the improvement was a night and day change. The sim had NO delay between car in game and motion.
Ive played on a Simx rig, I could tell the difference in reaction of motion of Simcommander to simtools.
We are in no way trying to convince you to use other software, but highly recommend it.
I recall, unless its changed, there is a $400 fee to use simcommander for non simx bought equipment or if your computer crashes, there has been stories of people having to fork out $$$$ for another licence for the software to work.
X-sim 3 software was designed so you have to pay a 40 euro fee to use it offline, because they deliberately make the server crash causing you to be forced to pay for a offline key and to get the software to work properly.

Thanks mate. Yeah I hope my mate who's running that X-sim software can give me a bit of an idea how it actually works setting up a motion rig. I mean there are so many different configurations, actuators and geometries. I got no idea about how you provide the information about your set up to a general motion sim software like Simtools or X-Sim.
Guess my Sim Commander is much easier just because there's only one Simx configuration and the software is set up for that. My set up is geometry-wise pretty much a copy of a Simx Stage 3/4 set up.
So even though there are differences between Simtools and X-Sim I think I will still learn a bit how that works in general and it will help me making up my mind whether to give Simtools a go or not.
Yeah Dave, it would be great if there's a chance to drop by at your place and check it out...still 1000k away unfortunately...
Cheers

@Thirsty , sure you are welcome to drop by. I am at home most mornings. heck of a trip, yes.
Commercial software is set up for one device, yes. Hence paying a premium price for it.
With Simtools, it is designed to run several devices, and yes , may take some help setting up.
@nclabs is the simx/xsim to Simtools man to help you along there.
The rest of us can assist with profile writing as you get to it.
Cheers, Dave.

Yeah, take a look at the standard tutorial and ask me if you need some help.

Cheers guys. I will google for that tutorial and see if it make any sense to me.

Add apart from everything you have said, that this forum simtools more active and help more users . And that I speak because I started with xsim . Simtools is my choice.

i think both software's are pretty good