Sync. Between Seat and Aircraft in SCN5 Profile

I am at the moment endeavouring to tweak a profile for FSX Flightsim which Chris has very kindly put me on the right road to create for two SCN5 actuators.The platform is based on Bernards motion platform the info. for which he provided and for which I am also most grateful. To insure when I completed the platform that it was up and running perfectly I borrowed a Logitech G25 car racing gear, used one of Bernards car profiles and the performace was fantastic. Then I was ready to create a FSX profile but there was not one available in the Forums Profile section that I could load load up and tweak. This is where Chris’s help was invaluble. I have also received a lot of help from Bernard,Sirnoname,Egoexpress,Rene and a lot lot more, thanks a lot guys I am most grateful. I am now on the most important part of tweaking and that is to try and sync. the movements between seat and aircraft.

Just to let you know how far I have progressed with it I have attached a copy of one of my profiles which has been updated no later than today and the relative analyzer info. of same . I have created several profiles for various planes which like the cars have got completely different characteristics and I have adjusted the combinations of values which suit each plane individually and the planes are all corrusponding very much the same. As far as I can follow in the tweaking of the profiles a lot depends on the cruising speed of the aircraft. I am at the moment getting approx 20 degree full forward and backward movements, I am also getting full 20 degree left and right banking movements, I am also getting where you have a combination of lets say a forward pitch and a left bank a movement which I would say could be better but this is due I feel to more improvment needed to the profile.

Now you might say how can I be sure of all this, I will tell you, I take my B737 up to lets say 5000 ft. at a speed of 200 and use my AP to hold her at this, this leaves that the only manual control available is to bank her at whatever degree I want. Now I have my X-SIM ForceProfiler operating on my fourth monitor at the side wall of my cabin and it is on Math Input selection which enables me to watch the analyzer. This enables me as I fly to feel the movement and also to watch and check the actual movement on the monitor which is recording. I do exactly the same with appropriate settings to check all other movements e.g pitch etc.etc.

One strange thing that happens and I can not understand it , I will try to outline it. If you imagine you are flying at a given fixed altitude in a straight line and you turn the Yoke to bank lets say 50 degrees to the left, the motion platform will lean to the left until it gets to approx 20 degrees fairly following the angle of the plane but when it gets to the end of its full span it does not hold in that position but then starts to return to its center position even though the plane may not have accomplished its full desired 50 degrees direction and is still on a bank. Why is the seat dictating the movement direction after it reaches its maximum reach and returning to center while the plane is still turning on its selected course and I have the yoke still held in the same position ? If I can describe a simular situaton with a car at very slow speed. You turn the steering wheel to turn a long slow bend ( remember it is a hearse you are driving , not an F1 car !! the speed and acceleration are down to 100 and 7 resp. ) half way round the bend the seat starts to return to center position while you still have a lock on the wheel to finish getting round the rest of the bend.

Now I have found a way around this which may indicate something but it not the right way to correct the problem. If the initial speed that you allocate is in accordance with the amount of change of direction that you request the motion platform movement will syncronize perfectly with the planes movement, i.e. Initial Speed 100 : 25 Degree turn or Initial Speed 150 : 50 Degree turn, in other words the greater the turn the greater the initial speed required to keep the two in unison, the acceleration can remain the same. I realise that this is an impossable way to get proper sync..The profile has to be adjusted to syncronize properly but I am afraidI have not found the answer. I have attached the analyzer sheets which might indicate something.

I would like to say that I am picking up bits and pieces around the various sections of the Forum from you guys for which again I am sincerely grateful and I can assure that without this I could not have progressed as far as I have.
I am delighted with the performance of the platform so far and realise that any improvement lies in utilizing the software more than I am. Naturally at the moment to try and get a proper movement sync. between the plane and the seat is my No.1.

If any of you can help me in this area my sincere thanks.

Kind regards

Toni

I think your seat is returning to center due to a linear washout effect that is either improperly set, or should not be there at all. That's what a washout effect does, it gradually returns the seat to the center position so that some actuator stroke will be abvailable for other effects (maybe turbulence in your case). The trick is to set the washout so that it isn't noticable.

Bernard many thanks for your reply.

As you may have seen I had two Linear washouts located in sequence immediatly behind the two GForce effects, the one to bank and the one to pitch and these were set at the lowest level of 1%.The settings for these washouts go from 1 to 40% and from trial and error I had found that it was best to set them at there lowest. From my reading I had found that they should be Used mainly in Flight Simulators to increase movement that was why I used them at all. Are there any other adjustments canbe made to these washouts ? Is there any alternative way that can hold the movement in its position until the turn is complete ?

Now since I got your post I have tried again changing the percentage value of same to 20% and 40% and also tried removing them completely but I am afraid that I am still getting that return to center.

Any chance you would elaborate on that Trick you mention in setting them so that they are not noticable or does the fact that I have tried removing them completely and still get the return to center remove the theory that they are causing the problem ?

Regards

Toni

Math lines are cumulative. Therefore a washout effect will washoult ALL previous effects, not just the preceding math line. You may need to reconsider the order of your math lines and washouts.

Bernard many thanks for your reply.

On reading your post I changed around my Math Lines in every possable order and also put in and removed the two washouts putting them in every sequence available. I then repeated all of this with the three different washouts ,Linear,Smooth and Sine with different values between 1 and 40% and again changinging the sequence without any luck. All of this I tried with just one effect which was the banking effect and with nothing only this effect in it returned to center as before.

I then decided to start from scratch with a new profile with just one effect but this time I tried a different effect to try and produce the banking . I tried another FSUIPC effect No.29 which is called X Lateral Acceleration ( The one that I had been using was No.35 the standard X Acceleration effect ).

Now with this Effect it actually holds in the max. left or right position for some time which the other one did not do at all. The only problem is that it returns too soon when it is on the right side and not soon enough from the left side but it does hold on both sides which is a big improvement.
Now I have tried various combinations of Speed and Acceleration values and even though they make a difference in the speed etc. it still has the same lack of sync. as above.

Nearly there Bernard !! any reason why this is happening ? To me I get the impression that something is out of alignment.

Regards

Toni

I believe that you are using the wrong effect. I don't know what the number is, but it should be named Roll. Lateral G-Forces and lateral G acceleration by nature will taper off once you've reached a position that you are holding. Roll on the other hand should represent your position vs. the horizon. It sounds to me like that's what you're looking for.

Bernard many thanks for your reply

I eventually located the effect which you referred to which is called “Roll Acceleration” and carried out the various tests to see if it would sort out the problem of Sync. ,however , no matter which way I tried it the results were not as we would have hoped. Initally I could not get any sort of acceptable motion from it and eventually found that this efect as far as I can make out is meant to be used for literally “roll” as it says, the action seems to be braught about by the movement of the Yoke in small dozes. I will explain, If you are travelling in a straight course and waggle your yoke left,right,left,right,etc.etc., ( same as the racing drivers do before a race ) you will get a regular motion movement to corruspond but if you leave your Yoke locked to go left or right the motion stops completely. I have illustrated this below from the analyzer.

So far I can only find three possible effects in FSUIPC that will provide banking and they are as follows;

EFFECT No. CODE No. DESCRIPTION GIVEN IN FSUIPC

37 3080 Roll Acceleration - Rel to body axes in rads / sec / sec
35 3060 X Lateral Acceleration - Right / Left Rel to body axes in ft / sec / sec
29 31C0 X Lateral Acceleration - Right / Left Rel to world axes in ft / sec / sec

NOTE No. 29 [ BERNARD THIS STATES WORLD AXES WHICH I TAKE IT CAN BE TAKEN AS HORIZON]

I have found that No.29 is the one that seems to be the best of them ,the problem with it is, as explained in previous post, the sync. is out but the movements are perfect. Find below the analyzer
diagrams of the three effects.

One last thing which may be of no significance, when I am switching on or off the Force Profiler, that is the “START” “STOP” button in the top left hand corner , I get a very quick “CENTER 1s” message on the same button, does this mean anything ?

Kind regards

Toni

Diagram 1. This is the Roll Acceleration Effect (No.37)which is the last one tried that seems to be more to illustrate fast left / right movements.

Diagram 2. This is the first of the X Lateral Acceleration effects ( NO.35) which returns immediately before the turn is completed.

Diagram 3. This is the second of the X Lateral Acceleration effects ( NO.29 ) which as pointed out above, and in previous post, even though it does not stay in Sync. does carry out the movements better than the other two.

Unfortunately, I do not have this game installed, and I wont have time for it for a few weeks. At this point, I think I will need the game to troubleshoot this any further. I would have expected to see three important outputs name yaw, pitch and roll without the suffix acceleration. Besed on my inderstanding of what you are trying to accomplish in your profile, I would expect roll to provide this result. Are you sure that there is no sender input in your 1:1 GForce that is simply named roll?

Bernard I am afraid that the only two are Roll Acceleration and another one called Roll vel world axes ether in the gforce sender input or in the FSUIPC commands which can be transferred into the sender output. Now as you saw from my last post I tried the first one and I explained the performance . As for the second one this would not show any reaction at all as if it was not intended for this use, maybe for gauges or something . If only you could see the performance of Effect No.29 X Lateral acceleration because I am sure all it needs is to be able to control the timing or Sync between the two i.e Platform and Screen, whether this is most difficult or very easy I dont know but the movements are perfect.

As far as what I am trying to accomplish with the profile it could not be more straightforward. Leaving out the aeronautical terms, when the plane rises in the air the platform rises front up, when the plane heads down the platform lowers backwards. When it turns left the platform leans left when it turns right the platform leans right. The reason that I am outlining this is that by comparison with some of the car racing profiles that you and others have produced for car racing it is a very simple profile. I have read in the forum about all of the work that you have put in to producing these profiles and it is a credit to you.

The biggest regret that I and I am sure any other Flightsimer with SCN5's is that you are not AS YET!! a flightsimer, if you were Bernard you could and would create a fantastic profile before your breakfast !! I appreciate how difficult it is for you to try and guide a newbee to creating a profile for FSX when you do not have the program to tweak around with.

All of the help you have given me be assured is most sincerely appreciated and I am sure that if you think of any further help you will provide it.

Kind regards

Toni

@SirNoName - What FSUIPC effect is intended for use in representing roll?

Bernard I very much appreciate your offer to perhaps provide us with a profile, or tweak mine, when you get FSX installed in a week or two.

This will put us Flightsimers on the map because as I have said previously there is not one completed profile available to us on site which would enable a lot of us I am sure to progress and introduce our own profiles and tweaks when there is a model to work from.

I am attaching below some info that I used which might save you a bit of time looking it up, if not, just put it in the bin !

I will be watching the forum by the hour to grab it when you get around to doing it. Again my sincere thanks for helping out with FS when I know that it is not your main hobby.

Kind regards

Toni

I haven't forgotten about you. I should be able to look at this toward the end of next week.

:

Bernard there was never a doubt in my mind that you would do as you promised . I am really excited about getting a profile for FSX that will let the platform perform at its best.

Wishing you the very best of luck at your trade show this week and in between your work do have a good time.

Again my sincere thanks for your help.

Kind regards

Toni