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Question What exactly do the sliders in the washout filter do?

Discussion in 'SimTools DIY Version' started by Alexander Asner, Jul 21, 2018.

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  1. Alexander Asner

    Alexander Asner New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Sorry if this is a dumb question but I did not find the answer.
    What exactly does the gain slider do and how does it relate to the tuning center values. What happens if I push it to the right, what happens if I leave it to the utmost left side?
    What if I do not move the washout button? There will be no washout and the axis just follows the movement
    ? What do I alter with the slider? The washout speed?
    Help highly appreciated as I am just guessing.
    Alexander Asner, Jul 21, 2018
    #1
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    noorbeast, Jul 21, 2018
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  3. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    (Washout) Gain – This is how much we will react to changes in the input from the game. If your simulator is not moving enough from the output from the game, Increase this value.

    (Washout) Return – This is how fast we try to return to zero after a movement has occurred. If your simulator is not homing (re-centering) fast enough after a movement, Increase this value.

    The Washout Filter is needed when your DOF input fails to return to center after the force is applied to the Axis.

    Example: when car's rear end slides out. The Axis is left in a non centered position. If the car then needs to slide out in the same direction again, there would be no room left for the needed travel. To overcome these circumstances, we use a washout filter as to slowly move the axis back to center without the rider’s knowledge of it occurring. A Gain of 1 or above must be used for the Washout system to be considered active. A setting of 50% for both Gain and Return is a good place to start for any game.

    Take care,
    yobuddy
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    yobuddy, Jul 21, 2018
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  4. Jon B.

    Jon B. New Member

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    Hello

    Ive tried this washout return setting at 0%, 1%, 50% and 100% in asseto corsa and my chair will not reenter. Im leaned over in every straightaway. Any ideas of a solution. Getting my motion dialed is driving me nuts. I've spent over a week on it and i keep going in circles. Thanks.
    Jon B., Oct 27, 2018
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  5. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    You should not really need to use washout, gain and return in a race car motion profile, they are more for flight sims.

    Follow these steps and do one axis at a time to refine a motion profile: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/steps-to-create-a-motion-profile.228/
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    noorbeast, Oct 28, 2018
    #5
  6. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    @yobuddy,
    I have the feeling that the gain max value is not big enough to bring back the cue to the center.

    Could this be the reason why the platform does not always return to the center like I would expect??

    Best
    hexpod, Dec 1, 2018
    #6
  7. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    @hexpod,
    The Gain Value is how much we will react to changes in the input from the game.
    Return is how fast we try to return to zero after a movement has occurred.
    If your not returning to center fast enough, increase Return and/or lower Gain .
    Take care,
    yobuddy
    yobuddy, Dec 2, 2018
    #7
  8. AussieSim

    AussieSim Member

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    Sorry to butt in to this thread.

    My interpretation of the above is the washout return is to restore a given axis back toward zero where there is a regular positive signal.

    For example in an oval race track there will frequently be a Yaw force, which will reach the axis limit very quickly.

    Is there a way to slow down the natural return, for example a harness tensioner belt without elasticity. Upon braking/surge the belts tighten quickly, but upon release of the brake I don't want the harness tensioner to release pressure immediately. Rather to gradually reduce tension.

    Is that possible with the washout filters ?
    AussieSim, Dec 2, 2018
    #8
  9. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    @yobuddy,
    Sorry but I would need a bit more pedagogy concerning this filter.

    If as I expect, the gain slider concerns a certain cut-off frequency in what should be a simple high-pass filter (low-cut filter), what exactly does the setting 1 and the setting 100?

    Thanks
    hexpod, Dec 2, 2018
    #9
  10. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    According to yobuddy's description of the washout filters no they don't work that way but should. It sounds like this system was designed before we had extra1 for traction loss and yaw velocity and people had to use yaw. But what we need now is a way to slow down the natural return of traction loss etc. if you would prefer not to have an abrupt return to center. I prefer the abrupt return for traction loss myself however making it function like all other G forces do without filters. For flight though washout filters would be appropriate.
    BlazinH, Dec 2, 2018
    #10
  11. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    How I can bring this to the center buddy? I tried gain 1 and gain 100

    Best
    hexpod, Dec 2, 2018
    #11
  12. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    @yobuddy,
    In the video above, please pay attention to the have slider in heXpod. As long as you modify the cue in the upper or lower range the rerun function doesn't bring it back. (It should). The platform returns to the center only when I stop moving.
    Do I missing something? Can you see the issue?

    Best
    hexpod, Dec 4, 2018
    #12
  13. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    It's probably from the sin wave in the experimental plugin you are running?
    Please remove the Rpm output from heave to see what happens buddy.
    yobuddy, Dec 4, 2018
    #13
  14. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    I don't understand what it has to do with the X-plane plugin?? Could you please watch again the video test above, I am testing the heave output by moving it with the mouse!
    Logically it should return to the center. Any explanation?

    Best
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
    hexpod, Dec 5, 2018
    #14
  15. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    @yobuddy, to be sure I've checked also with the previous version of the plugin. Same strange behaviour.

    As soon there is some cue change, the signal doesn't return at all.

    Could you check it please what's wrong there?

    We cruelly need this feature to maximize our 6dof's workspace.

    Thank you

    Best
    hexpod, Dec 6, 2018
    #15
  16. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Why the hell this math is sending the cue to the edge??

    Please watch:



    Best
    hexpod, Dec 6, 2018
    #16
  17. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    It appears that if the dof doesn't return to center before a new setpoint is given the filter is not properly accounting for this and instead adding outputs together.
    BlazinH, Dec 6, 2018
    #17
  18. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    Could it be because heave is a g force and not angular? A more detailed description of the filters would be nice. Above its stated it returns forces to center but the example used is angular.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
    BlazinH, Dec 6, 2018
    #18
  19. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    @hexpod,
    No worries buddy.
    We just need some heave washout tuning it looks like.

    There is actually 2 washout algorithms here.
    One for degrees and one for g-forces.
    I spent most of my time on the traction loss g-force algorithm.
    Where the degree algorithm was mainly tuned for yaw.

    We can work on it this weekend on skype and see if we can tune it in better for heave.
    Take care!
    yobuddy
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    yobuddy, Dec 7, 2018
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  20. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    I am/was confused by this statement:
    With forces you can't home any faster than what the game output is already doing can you? Now I know you recommend starting out with both at 50% but in my mind that's just muddying up the natural motion output before you even get started tuning. How am I wrong here @yobuddy?
    p.s. If this is really how you should do it I recommend making 50% zero then using -50 to +50 as that would be less confusing and a more accurate representation imo.
    BlazinH, Dec 7, 2018
    #20
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