1. Do not share user accounts! Any account that is shared by another person will be blocked and closed. This means: we will close not only the account that is shared, but also the main account of the user who uses another person's account. We have the ability to detect account sharing, so please do not try to cheat the system. This action will take place on 04/18/2023. Read all forum rules.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Now a Download Plan!
  3. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  4. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant. Do not follow these rules can lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.
    Are you a company? Read our company rules

2DOF compact race / flight with Oculus Rift

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by reko19, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    21,141
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    148,541Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,902 / 54 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    • Like Like x 1
  2. reko19

    reko19 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    Occupation:
    electrical engineer
    Location:
    usa
    Balance:
    38Coins
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -0
    thank you or the references @noorbeast
    so if my lever is 4", motor is 75RPM, linear speed is 2.8 feet per second which seems to be more than enough?
  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    21,141
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    148,541Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,902 / 54 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    It is actually more a question of what it takes to move something at what speed, and design affects the outcome. The general community rule of thumb approach is to run 40-60mm CTC on reasonably powerful DC motors and you will be in the ball park. But you did ask so here goes!

    I will use these motors as the basis for the example: https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/worm-drive-motor-12v-24v-200w-180-rpm-20nm-torque.html

    The linear velocity is how fast the arm moves for a given CTC. You can divide the torque by the CTC to calculate Newtons. Note the outcome is a trade off between speed and force.

    So a 40mm CTC at 180 rpm the linear velocity is 0.753984 m/s with 500 Newtons. A 50mm CTC at 180 rpm the linear velocity is 0.94248 m/s with 400 Newtons. A 80mm CTC at 180 rpm the linear velocity is 1.507968 m/s with 250 Newtons.

    You can then take the known Newton for a given CTC, the distance from the motor to the pivot point and the angle used. Run that through the calculator gives you the magnitude of the torque that is possible. Again the angle affects the outcome.

    If 250 Newtons is applied 600mm from the pivot at a 90 degree angle then the magnitude of the torque is 150

    If 250 Newtons is applied 600mm from the pivot at a 30 degree angle then the magnitude of the torque is 74.99999999999998
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Useful Useful x 2
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2015
  4. reko19

    reko19 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    Occupation:
    electrical engineer
    Location:
    usa
    Balance:
    38Coins
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -0
    @noorbeast thank you for the very detailed explanation. i will stick with 60 mm CTC with some additional pre-drilled holes to give me some range to play with since it is hard to tell what is the best torque and speed for the application
    • Like Like x 1
  5. pipis2015

    pipis2015 over-boost

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Athens, GREECE
    Balance:
    10,248Coins
    Ratings:
    +272 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    rating.jpg
    i wish there were more ratings to give ,
    thanks for taking the time to provide the info.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  6. reko19

    reko19 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    Occupation:
    electrical engineer
    Location:
    usa
    Balance:
    38Coins
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -0
    You guys are juts a bunch of troublemakers :) I was happy with my 2DOF+drift until I saw a thread from Boomslangnz 2 Dof Motion Sim Retrofit. Of course now I am thinking that adding a surge might not be a bad idea. It is a lot easier to incorporate it into the design now instead of trying to retrofit later. The problem is I am over my budget and this will easily add $300. So a couple of questions. I am planning to get 25:1 motor for this instead of 50:1 used for my other three DOF. I don't think I need as much force for surge and the eBay seller I bought them from no longer available. ANd would this be OK for the linear bearings, they are quite pricey.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/141626670720?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


    thanks guys
    • Funny Funny x 1
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    21,141
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    148,541Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,902 / 54 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
  8. reko19

    reko19 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    Occupation:
    electrical engineer
    Location:
    usa
    Balance:
    38Coins
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -0
    i know, this is how i got the idea. what is the general consensus, is surge worth the trouble or am i overcomplicating things?
  9. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    21,141
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    148,541Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,902 / 54 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    I don't know about consensus but I am guessing it is a bit like those who implement drift, once they have done it there is noting but positive reports. Still, surge is implemented far less often. Does it complicate things, yep, without a doubt.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Boomslangnz

    Boomslangnz Active Member SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Messages:
    346
    Balance:
    4,166Coins
    Ratings:
    +243 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    sorry! haha
    Not too many seem to add surge to be honest but I thought it looked cool and would definitely add to the sim. The linear rails aren't really cheap but they seem to work really well, I actually am using the SBR30UU ones myself however the SBR16's may be more then enough I just didn't know what they could handle and it wasn't too much more expensive for the bigger. Depending on your design you may not need that long rails either, my rails are 880mm long in total but I am only using 320mm movement in total of that which I feel confident will be plenty so depending on your design you could drop the length which saves in cost! Yes im using 25:1 motors and considering I can move it back and forth with a single finger with ease then im sure it will work fine. As for if its worth it? Ill let you know once its running soon but I asked the question in the previous few weeks and everyone who had it said yes...its worth it. Apart from noorbeast and his linear rail design of moving pedals etc I think im the only one to try a linear rail for surge in this way but you could also try a similar way using castor wheels or even roller blade wheels or anything of the such which could be a cheaper design for a similar result. Its never too late to look at it later if needed anyway
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. reko19

    reko19 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    Occupation:
    electrical engineer
    Location:
    usa
    Balance:
    38Coins
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -0
    Yes, you are the troublemaker who planted this idea in my head :). I already welded together a separate subframe for the surge. I think I will move on to the seat frame at this point to see how you like yours and if it is worth it to incorporate this into the sim. Most likely will use SBR16th as they should mount nicely to my 1.5"x1.5" square tubing I used for the frame.
  12. reko19

    reko19 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    Occupation:
    electrical engineer
    Location:
    usa
    Balance:
    38Coins
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -0
    Could someone tell be the difference between V1, V1.5, and upcoming V2 of Fanatec Clubsport Wheelbase? V2 is not even available yet, but by the time I am done I am certain it'll be out. I am considering buying a used one to save a few hundred dollars, not sure if this is a good idea or not. Thanks.
  13. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    21,141
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    148,541Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,902 / 54 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    The V2 has a better motor and cooling, so is a bit tougher.

    I am not sure what is classified as V1.5, I know Fanatec made V1.5 shifters but am not sure there is an official CSW.

    In Australia at least you can actually buy a CSW V2 if your pockets are deep enough, as you also have to buy a wheel seperately: http://www.pagnianimports.com.au/fanatec-clubsport-wheel-australia.html

    I have the CSW V1 and BMW and F1 wheels and are happy with them, they are good quality and feel solid in use, but I am not a hard core sim racer.
  14. reko19

    reko19 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    Occupation:
    electrical engineer
    Location:
    usa
    Balance:
    38Coins
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -0
    i could get used V1 for half of that, that is a lot of dough
  15. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    21,141
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    148,541Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,902 / 54 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Top end wheels are very expensive. If you really want to give yourself a fright have a look at the price tag for the Accuforce, which some members here do run: http://simxperience.com/products/accessories/accuforcesteering/accuforcepro.aspx

    You will need to determine what price point suits you and what options you have for that. A downside for second hand things like wheels is that you never know how hard a life they have had. That said one of your options could be a second hand CSW v1 and a future engine upgrade kit for it at some point. I can't remember who but one community member was going down the CSW V1 mod path.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. reko19

    reko19 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    Occupation:
    electrical engineer
    Location:
    usa
    Balance:
    38Coins
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -0
    Some progress to report. Lower frame is completed. Provisions for surge and traction loss.



    IMG_4525.JPG IMG_4519.JPG IMG_4523.JPG IMG_4524.JPG IMG_4522.JPG IMG_4515.JPG IMG_4514.JPG IMG_4506.JPG IMG_4508.JPG IMG_4511.JPG IMG_4512.JPG IMG_4513.JPG IMG_4517.JPG IMG_4520.JPG IMG_4521.JPG
    • Like Like x 5
  17. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    21,141
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    148,541Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,902 / 54 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Thanks for the build update, you have been busy.

    How do the ball rollers for drift hold up under load, they look pretty smooth unloaded?
  18. reko19

    reko19 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    Occupation:
    electrical engineer
    Location:
    usa
    Balance:
    38Coins
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -0
    each is rated for 110lbs, very smooth. if anything they are more quiet under load.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    287
    Location:
    Canada
    Balance:
    492Coins
    Ratings:
    +165 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    V1 - 5.2 NM
    V1.5 - 5.2NM, improved motors to prevent fade, updated encoder (original was prone to centering issues), updated internal ribbon cable (V1 tended to rip)
    V2 - 7 NM, updated internals and look
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  20. reko19

    reko19 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    Occupation:
    electrical engineer
    Location:
    usa
    Balance:
    38Coins
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -0
    thank you