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2DOF SIM FINISH

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by toofast, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. toofast

    toofast Member

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    Sorry but I think I misunderstood your question.
    I am not a specialist but I do not think that more power will be achieved using a 24v motor instead of 12v if you use a 12v source.
    In any case, the engine will suffer less and will heat less under prolonged work. Because it is oversized compared to the 12v working both with a 12v source.

    But as I say I am not a specialist. My knowledge of electronics and electricity is basic. I am sorry.

    ..............................

    Perdona pero creo que entendí mal tu pregunta.
    No soy especialista pero no creo que se consiga mas potencia usando un motor 24v en vez de 12v si utilizas una fuente de 12v.
    En todo caso el motor sufrirá menos y se calentará menos bajo trabajo prolongado. Porque esta sobre dimensionado en comparacion con el de 12v trabajando los dos con una fuente de 12v.

    Pero como digo no soy especialista. mis conocimientos de electronica y electricidad son básicos. Lo siento.
  2. toofast

    toofast Member

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    I have changed the power supply, I have definitely connected my motors to the 24v source since with the SMC 3DOF application I can regulate the power it sends to the motors and the result is good. I can say that apparently there are no changes in the response of the motors.
    I've only had to fine-tune the Fpid from SMC3 because one of the sensors was shaking a bit. I am not sure that this was caused by the change from 12v to 24v but it is true that before with a 600 Fpid the sensor signal did not shake but in this case I had to fix it by lowering the Pid to 150-200.
    I am going to upload a short video showing the movement of the motor with the test tab of the SMC 3 in Motion.

    ...........................

    He cambiado de fuente de alimentacion, he conectado mis motores a la fuente de 24v definitivamente ya que con la aplicación SMC 3DOF puedo regular la potencia que envía a los motores y el resultado es bueno. Puedo decir que aparentemente no hay cambios en la respuesta de los motores.
    Únicamente he tenido que afinar el Fpid desde SMC3 porque uno de los sensores temblaba un poco. No tengo claro que esto lo haya ocasionado el cambio de 12v a 24v pero es verdad que antes con un Fpid de 600 no temblaba la señal del sensor pero en este caso he tenido que solucionarlo bajando el Pid a 150-200.
    Voy a subir un pequeño vídeo en el que se aprecia el movimiento del motor con la pestaña de prueba del SMC 3 en Movimiento.
  3. Djalma Ribeiro

    Djalma Ribeiro Member

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    Great! But that is not what I meant. I was wondering if you also tested 12v motors (obviously connected to 12v)?

    The question was whether the 24v motor connected to 12v had performed better than the 12v motor (also connected to 12v).

    -----------------------------------------
    Genial Pero eso no es lo que quise decir. Me preguntaba si también probaste motores de 12v (obviamente conectados a 12v).

    La pregunta era si el motor de 24v conectado a 12v había funcionado mejor que el motor de 12v (también conectado a 12v).
  4. toofast

    toofast Member

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    Unfortunately I can not answer you for sure because I could not do that test since my motors are 24v, I do not have 12v motors. I am sorry.
    But logic tells me that the answer will be better if the whole system works proportionally. If the source is 12v and the motors are 12v its full potential would be used.
    In my case, with the old simulator program (x-sim) I did not manage to smooth the movements of the motors and they had too much power for the weight that they had to move and broke the weakest part, which is the transmission gears of the motors .
    In my case I managed to fix it by softening the power by lowering the input volts. But this does not take advantage of the full capacity of the engines.
    Now with simtools and SMC3 I can regulate the output power of the motors with their 24v source.
    I am assuming that a 12v motor will work perfectly with its 12v source, better than a 24v to 12v motor, since the motors and source will work as designed to work. You only have to regulate the power output to the motor well through the SMC 3.

    I have to say that in my case I prefer that my simulator reproduce smooth movements, but there will be people who prefer more sudden movements.

    For example, I do not need the seat to reproduce the potholes of the asphalt or the pianos of the circuit because that is transmitted to me by the steering wheel through force feed back, which makes the whole seat vibrate and so I also leave the axles of the engines more precision to reproduce only pich, roll, and longitudinal and transverse acceleration forces.

    Personally, I prefer that the seat simply move smoothly because I use virtual reality glasses (oculus CV1), so I don't need much movement to get sensations. The glasses do a lot of work and the seat only has to reproduce the g-forces to make the experience completely realistic.

    My opinion is that a well configured and supported simple 2 dof seat with a good steering wheel or flight lever and rv glasses can surprise how well they work.

    I hope my experience helps. Greetings.

    ...........................................

    Lamentablemente no puedo responderte con seguridad porque no he podido hacer esa prueba ya que mis motores son 24v, no tengo motores de 12v. Lo siento.
    Pero la lógica me dice que la respuesta será mejor si todo el sistema trabaja proporcionalmente. Si la fuente es de 12v y los motores son de 12v se aprovecharía todo su potencial.
    En mi caso, con el antiguo programa para simulador (x-sim) no conseguí suavizar los movimientos de los motores y tenían demasiada potencia para el peso que tenían que mover y rompían la pieza más débil, que son los engranajes de transmisión de los motores.
    En mi caso lo conseguí arreglar suavizando la potencia bajando los voltios de entrada. Pero así no se aprovecha toda la capacidad de los motores.
    Ahora con simtools y SMC3 sí puedo regular la potencia de salida de los motores con su fuente de 24v.

    Supongo que un motor de 12v trabajará perfectamente con su fuente de 12v, mejor que un motor de 24v a 12v, ya que los motores y la fuente trabajarán tal y como se diseñó que trabajaran. Solo tendrás que regular bien la salida de potencia al motor a través del SMC 3.

    Tengo que decir que en mi caso yo prefiero que mi simulador reproduzca los movimientos suaves, pero habrán personas que prefieran movimientos más bruscos.

    Yo por ejemplo no necesito que el asiento me reproduzca los baches del asfalto o los pianos del circuito porque eso me lo transmite el volante mediante force feed back, que hace que vibre todo el asiento y así también le dejo a los ejes de los motores más precisión para reproducir solo pich, roll, y las fuerzas de aceleración longitudinal y transversal.

    Personalmente prefiero que el asiento simplemente se mueva suave porque yo utilizo gafas oculus de realidad virtual asi que no necesito mucho movimiento para conseguir sensaciones. Las gafas hacen mucho trabajo y el asiento solo tiene que reproducir las fuerzas G para que sea del todo realista la experiencia.

    Mi opinión es que un asiento 2 dof sencillo bien configurado y apoyado con un buen volante o palanca de vuelo y las gafas de rv pueden sorprender lo bien que trabajan.

    Espero que mi experiencia sirva de ayuda. Saludos.
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  5. toofast

    toofast Member

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    Well guys, first tests with the simulator well configured with ProjectCars.
    It works perfectly! I am very happy with the result!:cheers
    Motors move smooth and firm, with just the right horsepower. You practically become so integrated into the simulation that you forget that you are at home.
    In fact I have done some test without the seat and it seems that you are missing some sense. I can no longer play without movement!

    Here is the video with different cars, the seat moves with each different one, just as it would be in reality.
    Very very immersive!

    ................................................

    Bueno chicos, primeras pruebas con el simulador bien configurado con ProjectCars.
    Funciona a la perfección! Estoy muy contento con el resultado!:cheers
    Los motores se mueven suave y firme, con la potencia justa. Prácticamente te integras tanto en la simulación que olvidas que estas en tu casa.
    De hecho alguna prueba la he hecho sin el asiento y parece que te falte algún sentido. Ya no puedo jugar sin el movimiento!
    Aqui va el vídeo con diferentes coches, el asiento se mueve con cada uno diferente, tal y como sería en la realidad.
    Muy muy inmersivo!:popcorn

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  6. toofast

    toofast Member

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    Another test, this time with Dirt Rally. Awesome!!
    .............................
    Otra prueba, esta vez con Dirt Rally. Impresionante!!

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  7. czgui

    czgui Member

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    Hi tooofast
    Can you share pictures of your SMC3 settings?
    Picture of Dirt Rally's axis settings.
  8. toofast

    toofast Member

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    Of course, I'll show you as soon as possible.
  9. czgui

    czgui Member

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    Thank you very much for your sharing spirit, I will look forward to your setup picture.
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  10. toofast

    toofast Member

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    This is my SMC3 configuration that works best for me with my 2DOF sim.

    The following image is of my GAME ENGINE configuration, as the tutorials explain it worked for me the first time.

    Now my axis settings and Profile Editor for DIRT RALLY

    And finally, the Main Editor configuration and the Game Engine zone that is not seen in the previous screenshot

    ..................................

    Esta es mi configuración de SMC3 que mejor me funciona con mi sim 2DOF

    La siguiente imagen es de mi configuración de GAME ENGINE, tal y como explican los tutoriales me funcionó a la primera.

    Ahora mi configuracion de ejes y Profile Editor para DIRT RALLY

    Y por último la configuración de Main Editor y la zona del Game Engine que no se ve en la anterior captura

    Attached Files:

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  11. czgui

    czgui Member

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    Thank you very much for your setup, I believe it will be of great help to me.
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  12. toofast

    toofast Member

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    Hello, after researching Simtools with car simulators I have dared with aviation.
    I have started with DCS, my favorite.
    I've had to start strength by strength testing separately to understand how they work and how to mix them together.
    The problem of the roll when the plane is upside down is solved by checking the anti rollover tab and so it works perfectly for a 2dof.
    I have used pich, roll, surge and heave. All at 40% in the allocation of the axes and without the need for filters. It works great for .lua file issues with the plugin. As I have read in the thread of the same pluggin.
    The only thing I have not been able to incorporate is the Surge. I do not know if it is because that force is intended for a simulator with more Dof.

    I put a small sample video:


    ....................................

    Hola, despues de investigar Simtools con los simuladores de coches me he atrevido con los de aviación.
    He empezado con DCS, mi preferido.
    He tenido que empezar fuerza por fuerza probando por separado para entender cómo actúan y cómo mezclarlas entre si.
    El problema del roll cuando el avión está boca abajo se soluciona marcando la pestaña anti rollover y asi funciona a la perfección para un 2dof.
    He utilizado pich, roll, surge y heave. Todas al 40% en la asignación de los ejes y sin necesidad de filtros. Funciona muy bien para los problemas que da el archivo .lua con el pluggin. Según he leido en el hilo del mismo pluggin.
    Lo único que no he podido incorporar es el Surge. No sé si es porque esa fuerza está pensada para un simulador con más Dof.

    Os pongo un pequeño vídeo de muestra:
  13. toofast

    toofast Member

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    Hello friends, yesterday I was working on my Logitech G940 throttle that had known problems. Some buttons did not work when operating the levers and roulette wheels 1 and 2 oscillated continuously. All this means that you cannot assign the keys and axes of the airplane simulator to the throttle.

    It is a known bug that all units occur sooner or later due to a design error. The main wire harness is short and the wires are very thin, so they end up snapping.
    In my case I had two completely broken cables.

    The most difficult thing is to access the set of cables since the entire device must be disassembled. But I helped myself with a video in which they disassembled it completely and the truth is that it was easier for me than I imagined.



    The problem was in the middle of the harness, which is where the cable flexes with each movement of the levers, so I cut the two ends to keep the pins and soldered new cable, a little thicker to make it last longer.
    That makes it difficult to put inside when mounting it because there is little space but if you do it with care and patience it is achieved.
    The new cable is about 5cm longer so with the lever movements it does not suffer.

    IMG_20200414_133056.jpg IMG_20200414_140857.jpg IMG_20200414_140911.jpg

    In short, now everything works like the first day !!!
    Now I have all the necessary controls to fly my Su-33.
    If anyone has this hotas and does not use it for the same reason they know it has an easy solution.

    Also I have found a page that updates the firmware with new hysteresis values that makes the force feedback and the roulettes work wonderfully.
    If a friend wants to try it I can link the page to download the firmware with instructions.

    ...................................

    Hola amigos, ayer estuve trabajando en mi throttle Logitech G940 que tenía problemas conocidos. No funcionaban algunos botones al accionar las palancas y las ruletas 1 y 2 oscilaban continuamente. Todo esto hace que no puedas asignar las teclas y ejes del simulador de aviones al throttle.
    Es un fallo conocido que a todas las unidades les ocurre tarde o temprano debido a un error de diseño. El arnes de cables principal es corto y los cables son muy delgados, asi que terminan por partir.
    En mi caso yo tenía dos cables completamente partidos.

    Lo más dificil es acceder al conjunto de cables ya que hay que desmontar todo el aparato. Pero me ayudé de un video en el que lo desmontan por completo y la verdad es que me resultó más fácil de lo que me imaginaba.
    El problema estaba en la mitad del arnés, que es donde el cable flexa con cada movimiento de las palancas, así que yo corté los dos extremos para conservar las clavijas y soldé nuevo cable, un poco mas gordo para que dure más.

    Eso hace que cueste de colocar dentro al montarlo porque hay poco espacio pero si lo haces con cuidado y paciencia se consigue.
    El nuevo cable es unos 5cm más largo asi con los movimientos de palancas no sufre.
    En definitiva, ahora funciona todo como el primer día!!!
    Ahora tengo todos los mandos necesarios para volar mi Su-33.

    Si alguno tiene éste hotas y no lo utiliza por el mismo motivo que sepa que tiene fácil solución.
    Además he encontrado una pagina que actualiza el firmware con nuevos valores de histieresis que hace que el force feedback y las ruletas funcionen de maravilla.
    Si algún amigo quiere probarlo puedo enlazar la pagina para descargar el firmware con instrucciones.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. toofast

    toofast Member

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    Hello guys!
    I link to you another video releasing my DCS module testing the A-10C systems.
    As can be seen in the video, the seat is great, without having changed any setting from F-18 to A-10 and the seat is very fine.
    In the video I can see that the seat hardly seems to move but I prefer this configuration since it transmits the movements of the plane and with the immersion of the oculus it is more than enough.
    I hope you like it!



    Hola chicos!
    Os enlazo otro video estrenando mi modulo de DCS haciendo pruebas con los sistemas del A-10C.
    Como se aprecia en el video el asiento va genial, sin haber cambiado ningun setting del F-18 al A-10 y el asiento va muy fino.
    En el video puedo ver que el asiento apenas parece que se mueva pero prefiero esta configuración ya que me transmite los movimientos del avión y con la inmersión de las oculus es más que suficiente.
    Espero que os guste!
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  15. Renaudeau

    Renaudeau Member

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    Very good project. Thank you for sharing. I want to build a similar project, I will certainly be inspired by this project.
  16. toofast

    toofast Member

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    Of course, any questions you have we will try to help where we can. Luck!
  17. susocalfail39

    susocalfail39 Member

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  18. toofast

    toofast Member

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    Hello Friend! I also use the translator, hehe. Sorry for the translation mistakes but surely what will be understood better than if I use my English ... related to hall sensors are perfect, and the best thing is that they do not wear out over time. But I have found that according to the sensitivity of the sensor and the power and distance of the magnets are very sensitive, at least in my case. At first I installed them directly to the axis, but I realized that the sensors reached the limits very quickly and that produces two problems: First, the motors vibrate a lot and are more difficult to smooth. Second, not all the movement of the motors is used because the sensor reaches its limit very soon. If you get some suitable gear wheels you will get much more smoothness because you increase the resolution of movement in the sensors and that the motors get to move from the limit that you decide through the limits of the program itself. I got the sprockets very cheap online. worth trying. If you are from Spain you can try the motio company page. but in amazon you find easily. The chair was a great luck. A friend knew a person who had a large warehouse full of old video game machines, and he let me in and take the one I liked best. My seat is from the famous' 90s sega arcade machine. On eBay I have seen some parts, but they are expensive. The truth is that it gives the simulator a very nice image in my opinion. If you test the gearboxes on the sensors, tell me what you think. I recommend it to you. Greetings and take good care, friend.
    .....................
    hola amigo! yo tambien uso el traductor, jeje.
    Perdon por los fallos de traduccion pero seguro que se entendera mejor que si uso mi ingles...
    relacionado con los sensores hall van a la perfeccion, y lo mejor es que no se desgastan con el tiempo. Pero he descubierto que segun la sensibilidad del sensor y la potencia y distancia de los imanes son muy sensibles, al menos en mi caso.
    Al principio los instale directamente al eje, pero me di cuenta que los sensores llegaban muy rapidamente a los limites y eso produce dos problemas:
    Primero, los motores vibran mucho y son mas dificiles de suavizar.
    Segundo, no se aprovecha todo el movimiento de los motores porque el sensor llega muy pronto a su limite.
    Si consigues unas ruedas desmultiplicadoras adecuadas conseguiras mucha mas suavidad porque aumentas la resolucion de movimiento en los sensores y que los motores lleguen a moverse desde el limite que tu decidas mediante los limites del propio programa.
    las ruedas dentadas yo las consegui muy baratas por internet. merece la pena probar.
    Si eres de españa puedes probar en la pagina de la empresa motio. pero en amazon encuentras facilmente.
    El sillon fue una gran suerte. Un amigo conocia a una persona que tenia un gran almacen llena de maquinas antiguas de videojuegos, y me dejo entrar y coger la que mas me gustara.
    Mi asiento es de la famosa maquina recreativa de sega de los '90 de autos.
    En ebay he visto algun despiece, pero son caros.
    La verdad es que le da al simulador una imagen muy bonita a mi parecer.
    Si haces la prueba de los desmultiplicadores en los sensores dime que te ha parecido. Yo te lo recomiendo.
    Saludos y cuidate mucho amigo.
  19. susocalfail39

    susocalfail39 Member

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  20. susocalfail39

    susocalfail39 Member

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    by the way the pen fits perfectly, inside the scooter bearing, hahaha.