Adding 2DOF motion to my 80/20 GS-4 Rig

@norbeast,

When i have to get out i have to put my left foot behind me when i get out, because the dashboard is sticking out. The GS-4 is also a real pain in the ....... to get out

I could cover the motor though. The deskracer design is a very good solution. Which i'm still considering.

I haven't made the decision yet which way to go.

First i'm gonna do a simple re-build of the seat from wood add a pivot and do some testing with the model before deciding which way to go.

I'm also considering a simX DIY kit SCN6 with and SX4000. (if it fits at all)

Will i be able to drive a SX4000 with simtools ?


Gr


Henk

@nclabs , I believe you are the actuator setup man when it comes to SCN5/6

rear mount motors would work with your setup, as long as you allow for room at the back to spread as far as you can apart and back as far as you can, like you did in the first drawing.
However with a "desk racer" design, the motor connection mounts would come up the side yes, and if this is an issues, the rear mount it is.

Yes, the SX4000 is simtools compatible, there are some other users on this forum with that box.

Thanks for confirming that

I saw the CXC Bathurst training video and immediately noticed how simular the angle of the acculators is compared to what i'm planning to build



I analised the two "how its made video's" from CXC simulatons and made some screenshots from the intresting parts




Picture 1

photo storage

As you can see they are definately using SCN6 acculators. I can't seem to find out how the bottom bar is mounted to the acculator housing. Are they using a damper or is it just a rod connected with a rubber isolator?

Picture2

photo upload

They are only using a small universal joint as pivot.


Picture3

image hosting free no registration

How they mounted the acculator to the seat. Is the acculator only mounted with those four bolts on top?

Picture4

gifs upload

Here you can see that they are also running with a very small angle.

Picture5

image uploading site

Here you can see that they are using a stabiliser. Is this needed. Are the acculators fixed or loose when powered off.

Picture6

image hosting without registration


I'm probably gonna try to re-create the CXC solution and build my own bracket for the SCN6.

I have a few questions though:



-Does anybody have an idea wether they are using dampers or just a vibration damper?
-Are the SCN6 acculators fixed or loose when power off?


Thx


Henk

Yeah, I would say your build would be very similar.

It does look like they are using SCN6 (from photo the SCN6's have a black lower half of the actuator and the SCN5's don't)

I think the extra stabilizer is to stop twist because the outwards angle of their actuators isn't that much. I have my arms at 15 degrees outwards and I don't have any problem with stability. I am guessing that they tried to make there simulator as narrow as possible so they had it add this extra support in there because they didn't have enough of an angle on the actuators. It does look pretty narrow compared to what you are building so it looks like it will be fine on your rig.

It looks like the are just using a rubber buffer under the actuator. This would act like a damper because the actuator will be squishing it. Doesn't look like anything too fancy, I suspect this is the same as what SimXperience uses, I know Frex just use a rubber buffer like that on their simulators.

I am not sure if the SCN6's can hold weight when powered off.

They use SCN6 yes, however, your GS4 seat is heavier than the seat they use.
Still , properly balancing it should be still ok. Id suggest mounting them at the back as high as you can. At the shoulders if there is room.
SCN might hold a bit when they are off, @nclabs , I think you use SCN. Do you know?
Again, I could be wrong, the rubber bush is there to help dampening a bit. As far as I know to help stop breakages in eh actuator.
@eaorobbie and or @nclabs may know more than me.

Thx guys ,

Just want to be sure i have the damping part right. Don't wanny destroy those very expensive SCN6
Could i use something as simple as this for the damping:




Hope that @eaorobbie or @nclabs can comment on how fixed the SCN acculators are when power off.

Henk I guess you race with a headset on ?

The Sheer noise of actuator's were a HUGE turn off for me.




Fwiw Actuator's have a Fragile drive pin that has the possibility of failing, which is why SimX uses the gas shocks to absorb a lot of the shock on the actuator....Those bushings you linked wouldn't help much for the vertical forces being applied.

Use 12v 200 watt 50:1 or 60:1 dc motors instead. Faster, quieter and more powerful. Match them to JRKS

I am still unsure of the suitability of JRK's with 50:1 motors, as seen on my rig.

I am leaning towards that maybe your motors @Avenga76 may have incorrect specs or simply require a LOT more power than normal, and or as you said, you have 5500 rpm motors on them. Even though the feedback is not read off the actual motor speed, I have a slight feeling that faster than 4000 rpm motors may be causing issues with JRK drop outs. Dunno why.
My actuators have 4500 rpm motors and in the beginning,. I ran them flat out and I have JRK overload drop outs, Now I have them a bit slower and reduced the overall power, they are fine.

Yep, i use headphones Nick

I have been using them since a couple of months and it's a revelation.

-I can't hear my buttkickers or my GS4 any more, so the noise level of the acculators shouldn't be an issue.
-The wife also never complains anymore about me turning up the volume too high.
-I can race with the GS4 (which is pretty noisy) when she's asleep, with high headset volume.

I'm hoping the acculators don't make more noise than the GS4

Possibility of a failing acculator due to improper mounting or damping is my main concern.

I believe the SCN6 are a lot stronger though, but i'm not really sure.
You can see a lot DIY builds that run without dampers and only have the damper bar at the back.

The SCN6 are 40Kfg, what kind damper, meaning strength in N would i need

Yes, that is correct. My motors are 5500rpm motors. I think as you go up in RPM the more you get overload errors. I have slowed my motors down and they are fine. Most 25:1 ratio motors are around 3200-3600RPM and they are fine with the JRK's, as you said with your 4500RPM motors you are haven't to slow them down. and with my 5500RPM motors I am having to slow them down even more.

I don't think it is anything to do with the feedback side because as you said, the feedback is off the output shaft so it is actually slower on a 50:1 motor (65-100RPM versus 160RPM) I think maybe it has something to do with the inertia of the motors when they are spinning at over 4000RPM. If you remember my testing I did on this when I had the gearbox removed. If I added a brake duration of over 50ms then the overloading problem went away.

I think the clue is in the JRK manual for brake duration.

I think that perfectly sums up what is happened with our larger 50:1 or 60:1 ratio motors. I think this gives the motors time to spin down before reversing direction. If you watched my video with the gearbox off you can see that the errors happen when the motors are reversing. I am guessing they are drawing extra power to overcome the inertia while changing direction. In my testing I found that I could run my motors at full noise for as long as I want without errors, I only got errors when I reversed the direction while the motor was spinning fast.

I looked up the specs of the 90ZYT-155 that @noorbeast linked to and the 50:1 version is very slow. Only 64RPM on the output shaft. That would mean the motor is only spinning at 3200RPM, this is probably why they work fine with the JRK's

https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/ebay/wormdrv.pdf

There seams to be some misinformation about this motors because the ebay page that was linked in that page says they are 80rpm (the seller even states that the label says 65rpm) If it was 80rpm at 60:1 then the motor speed would be 4800RPM

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-DC-Ge...al_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item58b2cd2323

Not sure which is right, I would probably lean towards what Motion Dynamics and the label say, which would make them 3200RPM motors.

I think we are pretty safe to say that you will start to run in to trouble with motor speeds over 4000RPM and really run in to trouble at speeds over 5000RPM. I just don't think the JRK's can handle reversing a motor when it is spinning that fast.

Anyway rant over [/rant]

back to the topic at hand.

This is how Frex does their dampers. a rubber buffer on the top and the bottom which will compress. The little foot down the bottom connects to the lower frame then the actuator arms is connected "Floating" between the two rubber buffers. This means as the actuator moves up and down the two rubber buffers will dampen some of the impact. Not sure how effective it is.

@HoiHman

I can answer the question about SCN5, they don't hold when powered of, you can extend the levers by hand. But they hold when powered on, so you can center your seat and turn the power on or your safety switch and the SCN will hold still. I assume the same would be for SCN6, but can't confirm.

As for the SCN sound, I actually did the soundproof boxes for them, I just need to upload the videos, but it turned their high pitched sound for about 50-60% down at least. Now they are very enjoyable.

The SCN6 are quite heavy to move even with no power on. I don't use a dampening system on it, the only dampening parts are the rubber feet that touch the ground, but up from there I use only steel and nothing else.

For the small angle that SCN6 are mounted on that cxc rig, insn't matter on wich angle you mount those, they are so powerful that even with a negative angle they still are unstoppable. On SCN5 you have to calibrate it and the position of the cardanic joint, but with the SCN6 it really doesn't matter.

PS: SCN6 are noisy just like the SCN5, but I drive with oculus rift + headphones and I can't hear nothing, even with low volume level. For me is not a problem.