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Are there any step by step guides on building a 3DOF?

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by Deleted member 23415, Oct 30, 2016.

  1. TFOU57

    TFOU57 Member

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    :cheersThank you for your 3D visualization solution with 2 anti-rotation rods.
    Just as I imagine the rod aligned with the upper universal joint.

    At first there will be an interference when the power in the low position of the simulator (red circle)
    Interference or it will pass so much just by putting the gear motor backwards (electric motor outwards)
    SEW gearmotors I recovered are quite large


    :cheersMerci pour la visualisation 3D de ta solution avec les 2 bielles anti-rotation.
    Il suffit que j’imagine la biellette aligné avec le cardan supérieur.

    A première vue il y aura une interférence lors de la mise en position basse du simulateur ( cercle rouge)
    Interférence ou cela passera de façon très juste en mettant le motoréducteur à l’envers (Moteur électrique vers l’extérieur)
    Les motoréducteurs SEW que j’ai récupérés sont assez imposant

    upload_2016-11-2_22-33-37.png

    upload_2016-11-2_22-34-39.png
  2. momoclic

    momoclic Active Member

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    L'intérêt d'une telle configuration me m'est pas évident ?
    Peut-être avoir un troisième moteur de puissance différente?
    Le ressort, dans les deux cas présentés, peut soulager les moteurs.
    Le sujet est traité ici, je t'invite à le lire ;)
    The subject is treated here, I invite you to read ;)

    The advantage of such a configuration is not clear me me?
    Maybe having a third different engine power?
    The spring, in both cases shown, can relieve engines.
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
  3. momoclic

    momoclic Active Member

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    Ce dessin n'a pour but que d'illustrer mon propos. P pour aller rapidement je suis reparti des dessins de mon tutoriel.
    Le principe est parfaitement utilisable avec tes motoréducteurs SEW en l'ajustant à tes exigences et matériels.

    This design is intended only to illustrate my point. P to go fast I left drawings of my tutorial.
    The principle is perfectly usable with your gearmotors SEW adjusting it to your requirements and materials.
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Assisted heave allows for a 3DOF with cheap motors and gearboxes that otherwise could not support the full weight of the user and all peripherals @Mathis Van Eetvelde.

    I use assisted heave on my compact sim, which is adjustable, so I can vary the spring tension and have had users up to 140kg use my sim and still have it be responsive.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. TFOU57

    TFOU57 Member

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    For several years, I have reflected a simulator without any combined movements.
    I wanted to make a floor purely Heave surmounted by a 2 DOF with an angular displacement from + 19 ° / 0 ° / -19 ° with the two gearmotors 550W and 750W gearmotor with a 116mm cam for controlling the Heave floor.

    To compensate for the weight of the floor with 2 DOF 2 gearmotor of 26kg each, I thought originally used a counterweight to relieve labor 750W geared motor of Heave floor.
    Then I considered the spring use to avoid the problem of inertia to set in motion.

    My problem has always been the problem of the vertical guide Heave floor.


    Pendant plusieurs années, j’ai réfléchi un simulateur sans aucuns mouvements combinés.
    Je souhaitais faire un étage purement Heave surmonté d’un 2 DOF avec un débattement angulaire de +19° / 0° /-19° avec les 2 motoréducteurs 550W et le motoréducteur de 750W avec une came de 116mm pour commander l’étage Heave.

    Afin de compenser le poids de l’étage 2 DOF avec les 2 motoréducteur de 26kg chacun, je pensais à l’origine utiliser un contrepoids pour soulager le travail du motoréducteur 750W de l’étage Heave.
    Ensuite j’ai envisagé l’usage de ressort pour éviter le problème d’inertie à la mise en mouvement.

    Mon problème a toujours été le problème du guidage vertical de l’étage Heave.
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    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016
  6. Deleted member 23415

    Deleted member 23415

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    @noorbeast So what you are saying is that the spring takes off the weight that otherwise would rest on the 3 motors?
    Let me calculate: I weigh about 75kg, let's say that all my gear weighs (steering wheel, chair, ect) weighs about 15kg and the frame weighs about 30kg. Added up that is 120kg of weight on 3 motors,. 120/3 = 40kg per motor. Would you recommend me to use a spring or not? I am still a bit new to the whole motion sim thing so I would have no idea how to incorporate a spring into my simulator let alone configure it. If you have any tips, they are welcome!!
  7. momoclic

    momoclic Active Member

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    3DOFmomocame.PNG

    Voilà à l'échelle ce que ça peut donner en réalité, comme je n'avais pas l'angle que tu avais choisi j'ai calculé pour 15° mais ça ne posera pas d'avantage de problème avec 19° et l'encombrement au sol se réduira.
    Les bielles rouge induisent un mouvement de vrille d'amplitude maximum de 11mm pour 170mm de "heave". Ce sera totalement imperceptible.
    Si la charge est importante une troisième bielle à l'avant peut s'avérer nécessaire.

    Avec 19° le rayon d'implantation passe de 438mm à 345mm.
    Mais avec 19°/0/-19° on arrive à 182mm, ce qui est totalement irréaliste.
    En résumé il n'est pas possible de réaliser de tels angles avec un système de ce type !

    Quelle charge envisages-tu sur ton plateau ?
    Avec 3 moteurs de 350w, 45nm de couple, 60rpm, et des manivelles de 97,5mm on lève 138kg...
    Ensuite on peut soulager efficacement les moteurs avec un ou plusieurs ressorts bien dimensionnés.

    That wide that it can actually give, as I did not have the angle you chose I calculated for 15 ° but it will not pose a problem advantage with 19 ° and clutter ground will be reduced.
    The red rod induces a maximum amplitude spiraling motion of 11mm to 170mm "heave". It will be totally imperceptible.
    If the load is an important third rod at the front may be necessary.

    19 ° with the implantation radius from 438mm to 345mm.
    But with 19 ° / 0 / -19 ° is reached to 182mm, which is totally unrealistic.
    In summary it is not possible to achieve such angles with a system of this type!

    What load do you see on your plate?
    With 3 engines 350w, 45nm torque, 60rpm, and crank it up 97,5mm 138kg ...
    Then we can effectively relieve the engines with one or more well-sized springs.
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016
  8. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Keep in mind that the load is not always distributed evenly. Things like pitch up may have one motor carrying the majority of the load and the rig needs to be designed accordingly.

    You can choose powerful motors, and AC motors are popular for 3DOF rigs, that can provided the needed specs to support the mass without a spring assist.

    Choosing to use spring assistance means you can use DC motors, but it is not as simple as it sounds in terms of design and complexity, as you need to ensure the spring calibration actually balances the mass pretty much perfectly.

    @cthiggin spent a lot of time, money and effort creating a spring assist that in the end created more issues than it solved and he found his AC powered rig did not need it anyway: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...orm-95-finished-020515.5085/page-2#post-57792

    I went a different route with spring assist for my compact sim and chose something that was designed to support a person's weight and was adjustable, which was the tilt mechanism for an office chair.

    That had its own implications, the heave travel axis is not huge, which was OK for me as I did not want that, it also travels through a small arc, which has to be taken into account both for the design of the mount to minmise it and in how SimTools is calibrated, but it works really well for what I wanted to acheive: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/dx-racer-compact-simulator.5866/page-15#post-83752
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. momoclic

    momoclic Active Member

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    3 moteurs DC de 350w, 60rpm, 45nm sans ressort suffisent pour un simulateur léger acceptant environ 120kg de charge pour une course en heave de 120mm. Il chaufent un peu. L'adjonctionc tion de trois ressorts fait qu'ils ne chauffent plus.

    [​IMG]

    3 350w DC motor, 60rpm, 45nm without spring enough for a light simulator accepting about 120kg load for a race heave 120mm. It chaufent a bit. The adjonctionc tion of three springs that they do heat up.
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016
  10. momoclic

    momoclic Active Member

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    Finalement il faut toujours vérifier ses dires... ;)
    19/0/-19° et 168mm de course sont réalisables, tout passe sur l'implantation de rayon 182mm. Il suffit de bien orienter manivelles et motorisations.

    upload_2016-11-3_10-25-47.png

    Finally always check your say ...;)
    19/0 / -19 ° and 168mm stroke are feasible, everything goes on 182mm radius of implantation. Simply orient cranks and motors
  11. TFOU57

    TFOU57 Member

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    Hello, thank you for your sketches!

    I have several things I want to clarify.
    How you place the anti-rotation rods?
    I understood only that they must be:
    - The longest possible
    - Being horizontal in the middle position when the gearmotor is horizontal rod
    In these two sketches that I put in illustration, I do not see the same principle of attachment anti rotation rods at the top
    What do the 50mm dimension and the small green triangle in the second sketch?
    How would a 3rd placed rod anti rotation?

    What would be the rules for implementing based on the simulator and on the moving part?

    Would it be possible to have a sketch for the top that showed a rating of 3 implantation rods anti rotation?

    Bonjour, merci pour vos esquisses !

    J’ai plusieurs points que j’aimerais éclaircir.
    Comment tu places les bielles anti-rotations ?
    J’ai compris uniquement qu’elles doivent être :
    • Les plus longues possibles
    • Etre horizontale en position médiane lorsque la bielle du motoréducteur est horizontale
    upload_2016-11-3_18-34-0.png
    Dans ces 2 esquisses que j’ai mis en illustration, je ne vois pas le même principe d’attachement des bielles anti rotation au niveau de la partie supérieure
    A quoi correspondent la cote de 50mm et le petit triangle vert de la seconde esquisse ?

    Comment serait placée une 3ème bielle anti rotation ?

    Quelle serait les règles d’implantation de sur la base du simulateur ainsi que sur la partie mobile ?

    Serait-il possible d’avoir une esquisse en vue du haut qui montrait une cotation de l’implantation des 3 bielles anti rotation ?
  12. momoclic

    momoclic Active Member

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    Il me semble que tu as parfaitement compris mes propositions.
    Dans le dernier dessin je n'ai pas positionné de bielle anti-vrillage car elle peuvent être totalement dépendantes de l'architecture du châssis.

    La règle de les mettre les plus longues possible et à l'horizontal découle du fait qu'elles décrirons un arc de cercle de rayon égale à la bielle .
    L'arc lui sera limité par la course verticale. Le flèche de cet arc étant l'effet parasite maximal (raison essentiel de l'horizontalité //).
    Dans mon tutoriel déjà cité (version anglaise et française), tu trouvera l'essentiel de la méthode d'implantation ainsi qu'une feuille de calcul pour obtenir les angles souhaité en fonction de tes exigences et matériels.
    Ensuite pour les bielles anti-rotation l'idéal serait probablement de les placer à 45° par rapport à la médiane du triangle comme sur le dessin que tu as joint au message précédent.
    Pour faire ce dessin je me suis servi de la feuille de calcul qui détermine le cercle d'implantation calculé selon les paramètres fournis (2) longueur manivelle et angle inclinaison, c'est tout. Avec ça il est très rapide de faire un croquis. Les dessin que j'ai réalisé sont réaliste pour une vrai construction a quelques ajustements près.

    La différence entre les deux images vient que le premier dessin voulait illustrer un principe. dans la seconde j'ai pris en compte des interférences et contraintes de fabrication. A cause de cela je ne pouvais me coller au triangle base , je m'en suis écarté de 50mm, ce qui ne change rien à la cinématique du montage.

    Pour 3 bielles, chacune parallèle à chaque coté du triangle.

    J'insiste, prend le temps d'étudier mon document sur la construction du 3dof à effet de houle. Profites-en pour lire aussi, sur le site français, les règles pour 2dof, il y a certain points que je n'ai pas repris (à tort). Pose moi des questions sur ce site en français c'est plus facile pour moi, merci.


    It seems to me that you have fully understood my proposals.
    In the last drawing I have not positioned rod anti-twisting as it can be totally dependent on the chassis architecture.

    The rule to put the longest possible and to the horizontal due to the fact that they describe an arc of a circle of radius equal to the connecting rod.The arc it will be limited by the vertical stroke. The boom of this arc is the maximum parasitic effect (essential because of horizontality //).My cited tutorial (English and French), you will find most of the implantation method and a spreadsheet to obtain the desired angles depending on your requirements and materials.Then for the perfect anti-rotation rods would probably place them at 45 ° to the median of the triangle as the drawing that you have attached to the previous message.
    For this design I used the spreadsheet that determines the layout circle calculated according to the parameters provided (2) crank length and tilt angle, that's all. With that it is very quick to make a sketch. The drawing I made are realistic to a real construction few adjustments. Because of that I could not stick me the basic triangle, I am ruled 50mm, which does not change the kinematics of the assembly.

    For three connecting rods, each parallel to each side of the triangle.

    The difference between the two images is that the first drawing would illustrate a principle. in the second I considered interference and manufacturing constraints.
    I insist, take the time to study my document on the construction of wave effect 3DOF. Asks me questions about it, thank you.
    • Winner Winner x 1
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016
  13. TFOU57

    TFOU57 Member

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    :cheers@ momoclic
    Thank you for that clarification and guidance of implementation of anti rotations rods.

    I'll look at your background 3DOF tutorial so detailed.
    If necessary, I would touch on one of the dynamic simulation French Forum to facilitate you the task (no translation necessary).

    :!A small suggestion for your significant tutorials (many pages), in addition to the date of update, the reader has already studied the tutorial, changes in sheet would be welcome.
    This sheet on which side of the modification date, author of the tutorial says some words updating.


    :cheers@ momoclic
    Merci pour ces précisions et les conseils d'implantation des bielles anti rotations.
    Je vais étudier à fond ton tutoriel 3DOF si détaillé.

    Si besoin, je prendrais contact sur un des forum français de simulation dynamique afin de te faciliter la tâche ( pas de traduction nécessaire).

    :!Une petite proposition pour tes tutoriaux important ( nombreuses pages), en plus de la date de mise à jour , pour le lecteur ayant déjà étudié le tutoriel , une feuille de modification serait la bien venue.
    Il s'agit de feuille sur laquelle à côté de la date de modification , l'auteur du tutoriel précise en quelque mots sa mise à jour.
  14. momoclic

    momoclic Active Member

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    Merci, au début du projet du tutoriel j'avais commencé à noter les révisions. Mais à cette époque j'en faisait trop souvent et j'ai arrêté. Maintenant qu'il se stabilise, tu as parfaitement raison, il faut que je note ajouts et modifications.

    Thank you at the beginning of the tutorial project I began to notice the revisions. But at that time I was too often and I stopped. Now it stabilized, you are perfectly right, I have noted additions and changes.