Hydraulic SYM

It's the SR3B261BD

Won't work as the outputs are only relay outputs and if I need to feed 0-10v into the valves this unit does not have that functionality

Only on and off//

Looks as I have to look into the aurduino or another proprietary board to link up to simtools

Ok, then it would be the best solution to use an Arduino.
But it doesn't have true analog outputs and not at all +-10V. Yes, it seems that you need +10V for one direction and -10V for the other.
But that's no reason to commit harakiri
There are digital to analog converter chips (for example MAX5312) available, which can be controlled by the Arduino. They can supply +-10V.

But now comes the bad part:
It will be mandatory for you to get involved to the arduino language.

Ok, that sounds like I need to read a lot about aurduino

What you mean with "It will be mandatory for you to get involved to the arduino language"

The Arduino has its own programming interface, there are many C++ commands. Also there are many simplified commands for beginners, but if you want to program more special- or timing critical- "things", you have to go deeper into it (assembler commands).
But now comes the good part:
To almost every problem you will find solutions in the www.

Ok, so arduino will be.

I have a few unos around.. not sure if they the appropriate ones..
'Could you send me a list of all hardware I need to buy to achieve my goal?
BASICALLY YOU NOW KNOW WHAT I HAVE..

THE COMPLETE HYDRAULIC SYSTEM IS THERE WITH THE SUPER DUPER EXPENSIVE VALVES ;0)

SO ALL I NEED TO INOW AT THIS STAGE IS WHAT MORE BOARDS, CONVERTERS, FILTERS, ETC ETC DO I NEED.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE I HAVE ALL THE TOOLS BEFORE I start getting my hands dirty with oil

Your help will be much appreciated and compensated.

M

Hey guys ...
There are already many developed and tested Arduino codes for a 2-3-4 DOF simulators here ... The best suitable one IMHO is the one called SMC3 ...
https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...3dof-motor-driver-and-windows-utilities.4957/

So, Arduino coding is a no problem .
I have also developed a shield for the SMC3 to give analog 0-10v to be used with VFD inverters that are used wit 3 phase motors that may be useful in driving the servo valves ..
https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...of-3-phase-ac-motor-opto-coupler-shield.9506/


The good part is Arduino accept the same feedback analog signal .

Help Please..

Got the Three phase system working and dumped the old sim controller cabinet... was too old and rubbish.
so now time to get my hands dirty.

Only a bit scared to break something for not knowing what I am doing with the valves.

Worst even hurt myself and burst pipes so here it goes the questions.

Attached pictures shows most of the components on the hydraulic system/

There are 4 Valves which confuse me.

From what I can gather 3 are for each of the actuators, but what's the fourth one for??

Activate the flow into all the valves??

When I apply 24v to the 4th valve the pressure goes mental..

which takes me to my second question...

What should be the safe working pressure on one of these systems?

when the motor running and nothing else happening to the system, the pressure meter barely moves but applying voltage to the 4th valve it goes 3 quarters of the way.. I only tapped it momentarily...

Also, there is a picture showing some sort of filter and there is also cable there... What's that cable for?..

I want to build a small control panel before starting to work on the electronics to manually operate the sim.

Basically a bunch of push buttons that will allow me to expand/retract each of the hydraulics and somehow adjust the speed that they move.. maybe with a pot for a rotary switch or something..

How can I go about this please?..

thank you so much guys for your support so far...

Marco

Sorry, but that's too tedious to find out from afar.
My advice for you:
Make a drawing with all components (motor, valves, filters etc.) and with all hoses inbetween. (Similar to an electric diagram).
Then try to find out which function each part could have (www.atos.com and others).
Try to find out in which direction the oil could flow.
Then everything will become clearer. I would do the same if i were there.
Much success and please do not be impatient. Everything needs it's time.

Right...

Good news and bad news..

I sussed it all out and I now understand fully how my sim works.

basically there is a closed loop, with a valve that once triggered builds up the pressure and when one of the three valves gets triggered it moves the actuator.

I have a physical protection cylinder to stop over pressure from happening installed.

Also the filter I was on about on the previous post, it's a pressure filter..

Basically it triggers when it detects pressure from the motor working..

The speed and direction that the actuator moves is made in a simple -10 <> 0 <> +10 voltage between two contacts of the valve

The bad news...


Two of the valves on the damn thing are gone..

One is on it's way out as it moves very slowly the actuator and the other one doesn't respond at all so the actuator only moves in one direction at full speed.

So, these cost used about £1500 on ebay, so i am thinking this is the end of my project until i can source two units on the cheap...

Then I started thinking...


What is wrong with them is the electronic side only, as the mechanical works well.. i used the one that works well on all three positions and all the actuators move nicely..

so looking under the hood of the servo valve, there is two cables

one two core and one small ribbon.

I am assuming that the two core is for a coil voltage as it's a thicker cable, and the ribbon is for the servo functions ( feedback, coil position, etc)

so, what Would happen if I bypass the electronics side of things all together on the valves and apply a controlled voltage into the the coil direct??

With the working one i can monitor what sort of voltages go onto it on normal operation, so could I not do this myself??

I don't care about the feedback coming from the valve itself as I have an external Encoder attached to the actuator which is going to report back where the actuator is physically..

Any thoughts throw it in the interested ones..

well seems to be only two interested @speedy and @Bernd Manger ... thanks guys

Marco

i wouldnt of thought there are only 2 people interested mate.. its just wat above what people are used to. i did start following it and i just got lost

Slowly, slowly !!
I doubt that the electronic parts of the valves is defective. It is much more likely that there is a mechanical problem.
If you look at the valve's pdf you will see a spool (part2) on the picture , driven by the solenoid (part4).
On this spool there are certainly several sealing rings. Usually these are the first parts that wear out.
I'm shure that there are repair kits from "atos" available.

What you can do is to exchange the electronics from the "good" valve to the "bad" ones to test whether it is so. (Provided that there are connectors between solenoid / transducer (part5) and the electronics (part6) ). Or you have to solder.

I write this because i don't believe that there is a way to drive the solenoid (coil) by yourself. You will surely get uncontrollable movements to the spool, that's why the closed loop control is in there. (And not for controlling the position of the actuator, as you assume).

Yes It is..

The mechanical part is working well and the electronics on two of the units are faulty.

as I say on my previous post....

"What is wrong with them is the electronic side only, as the mechanical works well.. i used the one that works well on all three positions and all the actuators move nicely.."

in reference to the movement of the coil, I believe you are correct. I will measure what happens to the coil when on operation just for curiosity anyway.

I have emailed a couple of suppliers and will try and get them repaired.

Ok, i assumed that you've tried the whole "good" valve on all three positions and not the electronics only.
Now it's clear.

Hi @Marco Dias
Here is something to consider, in air conditioning there is such a metering device called VRV valve which replaces a tx valve on multi head split systems.
What that is essentially a variable rate valve which is controlled by a stepper motor.
Maybe use a large rate solenoid valve for fast/large moves and then use a vrv for the finer/small movements.
Just some food for thought....

Maybe you do not know, but hydraulic systems work with pressures up to 300 bar. That will not work.

Hi

You are very correct.

My system has a mechanical pressure control system that stabilises max pressure at 150 bar...

I really hope that thing never bursts a pipe as it won't be pretty.

Now, I need to find a solution to use my valves. The electronic part cannot be purchased so I only have two options.

Replace the whole valve at £2500 each or somehow attach a piece of electronic to the solenoid of my working mechanical parts and move the valve that way.

RESEARCH LEAD ME TORWARDS THIS PRODUCT...

http://www.oesincorp.com/closed-loop-position-control-module.htm

ANY IDEA IF IT WILL WORK?

Thank you everyone

This indeed could work, but:
You have to find out which signals the position transducers (part 5) deliver. Perhaps they are wired as a measuring bridge (similar to a load cell).
Also you have to find out the voltages going to the solenoids (part4).
The best way to find out is using an oscilloscope: (similar to this one)
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Hantek-USB-S...384269?hash=item3ad8432d0d:g:YW0AAOxy63FS-DOI
It's not expensive and you can also use it later when building the control loops for your actuators etc..

Thanks my friend.

I should employ you to come over and sort this for me

You seem to have all the answers..

Here's another unrelated one.

I have another project which is to do with robotics but is also related to my sim and on this project I have a small device called a resolver.

11brw-300-f-1a-01

This is a feedback device that supposedly reports speed direction and rotation count.

I need to interface this with a device like a arduino for example.

Any idea of how to go about it?

I have ordered the oscilloscope.

Need to learn on how to use one first actually..

Cheers

Marco

how about using a Arduino to control it with some extra electronics??

from what I you,d read up, this valve is being controlled by varying the current..

should be possible to interface directly to a Arduino making it even simpler to patch into sim tools right?

Cheers

Hahaha, nice try !!

Here is a link "resolver to arduino":
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ResolverToQuadratureConverter

Very wise decision, you will not regret it.
First task for the scope: To measure the output signals from the resolver.

For the three valves:

I can imagine a combination "Arduino >> H-Bridge >> solenoid".
But you have to find out a way to get "transducer >> Arduino". (the scope is your friend)

If you get this running you will need:

One Arduino Mega for recieving the three values from SimTools and calculating the close loops for the three actuators.
The analog input from the three Micropulse transducers (actuator feedback) goes in there also.

One Arduino Uno for each hydraulic valve to build the close loop "transducer >> Arduino >> H-bridge >> solenoid".

The Arduino Mega has four serial interfaces, so it can communicate to SimTools (via USB) and to the three others.

Three H-bridges.

A lot of time for writing the code. (Sorry, that's life! )