MaxDamage's simulator ( 2DOF with DC gearmotor )

ciao maxd sono della provincia di udine sono da poco iscritto al sito e colgo l'occasione per fare a tutti i complimenti per le realizzazioni e i consigli che danno agli appassionati, ho visto il tuo lavoro e direi che è ottimo tanto che vorrei realizzare un prototipo uguale al tuo.Come elettronica ho gia realizzato l'avr di thanos e anche se ho ancora dei problemi a farla funzionare a dovere vorrei utilizzare quella.Tu cosa mi consigli?i motoriduttori ke hai preso quanto li hai pagati?lo so magari sono un po pretenzioso e so ke c'è dietro parecchio lavoro,ma saresti così gentile a fornirmi le misure per realizzare la meccanica?grazie ciao

I have found the invoice , it was in my car under the seat...
I have paid :
- 8,00 euro the encoder ( code ENC/001 )
- 8,00 euro electrical limit switches ( code FTC/101 )
- 152,00 euro the gearmotor ( code BX100/24V )
- 7,50 euro the base plate for the gearmotor you can weld to the chassis ( code LONG/600 )
(you have to add the VAT to this prices.)

So i have paid 400,00 euro included VAT at 17% for 2 gearmotors with 2 encoders by fromautomazioni and 190,00 euro for the control units by solutions-cubed.

Come elettronica ho usato la motion mind 3 di solutions cubed, costa 95,00 euro in Italia, funziona molto bene, occorre
avere l'accortezza di raffreddarla adeguatamente con una potente ventola altrimenti cuoci i mosfet.
Il prezzo dei componenti li trovi in un altro mio post.
Per quanto riguarda la struttura, sei bravo con la saldatura ?
I tubolari che ho utilizzato sono dei 120x60x3 mm di spessore, hai modo di tagliarli con una sega a nastro ?
La struttura che ho realizzato porta ad avere dei punti molto critici sia sulle saldature che sui cuscinetti.
Su un cuscinetto agisce una forza di piu' di 900 kg e su alcune saldature agiscono carichi ancora maggiori.
Non ti voglio scoraggiare ma solo metterti in guardia, se il simulatore si rompe mentre sei sopra rischi di farti male.

Hi Maxdamage (cool name btw), I would very much like to have the same kit as you have. Can you pls tell me how to contact them for the motors and parts. Should I just call them up or ... .
They don't provide all the information I need in their website. A little help needed :

Try by e-mail.
They sell gearmotors for garage doors, you have to ask 24V gearmotors for garagedoors with magnetic encoder.

ciao maxd,per la saldatura non ci sono problemi solo che ho già realizzato l'elettronica di thanos e se fosse possibile utilizzare quella non mi servirebbe acquistarne altra ,ma non hai delle misure per la meccanica?se ti va possiamo sentirci in privato la mia mail è sarcandoll@libero.it
avrei parecchie cose da chiederti ciao grazie

Hi MaxDamage, do you have a pdf with the caracteristics of the motor and if yes can you post it?, thanks

Hey I just got this quotation from automazioni at double the rate you bought.But at the end they say that they will offer 50% discount.I don't know why maybe a clever marketing trick or they just want to make sure they sell at their usual rate when the customer asks for a discount. Anyway this system is within my fiscal range and I m preparing to order.

Maxdamage please let me know if there is anything I am missing (I don't think we need their controller, although it is included in the quotation.).So when I get my stuff from them it should be :
- the encoder ( code ENC/001 )
- electrical limit switches ( code FTC/101 )
- the gearmotor ( code BX100/24V )
- the base plate for the gearmotor

right???

just in case anybody else is looking for this,Here is the quotation tr they send me:

The prices for the components are :

BX100/24V : 24V 120W gearmotor, 1:916 gear reduction : 305,00 euro

ENC/001 : encoder system for BX/100 gearmotor : 16,00 euro

FTC/101 : electromecanical limit switches : 16,00 euro
LEVER/005 : arms system for automation of garage door : 68,00 euro

STAR/SMD : control unit for automation of garage door : 136,00 euro

LONG/600 : 64 cm base plate to mount BX/100 on the surface of garage
door : 16,00 euro

On this prices i can make a discount of 50% so you pay half the price (
305,00 -> 152,50 , 16,00 -> 8,00 euro,
and so on ) if you buy more than 2 gearmotors or more.
At this prices you have to add the price for the shipment to your place, i need to know.
how many gearmotors you need and your complete address to request a
quotation
to the carrier.


Best Regards



I think this could be another engine for the time being for simmers to look upon, if you are under a tight budget or until all of our dream of getting a SCN5 engine comes true.
I trust that Maxdamage has already proved that this works. So I am gonna follow his path. Will let you know when I get my hands on them. In the mean time I am trying to finish my structure.
Thank you Maxdamage.
P.S : I thought it would be appropriate if I posted it in your place because many new comers would be coming looking into finished projects like yours. Sorry if I did anything out of line..

This is good information. I don't think we're allowed to post phone numbers though.

Oh !! I am terribly sorry about the phone numbers.I have now removed it. I didn't realize it before. won't happen again.
Thank you for bringing that to my attention Bernard.

Yes, that's all the parts i have bougth.
I bougth limit switches but i don't use it now.
For the prices i think that the full price is with installation, i have payd the full price when they installed the garage door opener in my home, the discount of 50% is because
you install the gearmotor by yourself.
You'll use this gearmotors with MOTM3 controller ?

I am studying the MOTM3 controller right now.Its very attractive since its a ready made system for a reasonable price.I am lucky that they ship to my country as well

So i have paid 400,00 euro included VAT at 17% for 2 gearmotors with 2 encoders by fromautomazioni and 190,00 euro for the control units by solutions-cubed.

+You will still need to find a powerful enough supply.

With a quick calculation, the over all cost might not be very far from the SX-3000 starter kit. Not to steer you in any direction (now I want you to get this ), just pointing out the numbers.

MaxDamage: can you give us a rough estimate of the shaft RPM?
I really want to see these motors in a seat mover configuration!

Hi,

have you been able to improve those issues yet?

Regarding the footage. Imho there is not enough movement for accelleration/braking, and the movements are too slow.

Regards

Not yet, now i'm not more on holidays and i'm working all the week.
I think i can solve the problems with the power supply in this weekend.
I post a new video as soon i solve this problems.

Thank you for your comments.
I think i have solved some problems i had in the first video.
Now the power supplier give the correct tension ( 22,5 volt ) to the gearmotors , i have
used more aggressive PID parameters in the MOTM3 control unit and i have reduced
some play between the gearmotors and the linkage.
There are 2 new videos on youtube :

with netKar-Pro :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlNM6JKMDm4


detail of the gearmotor and articulated arm :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CES9dzUei9M

Isn't a little expensive this price for such slow motors? Even the cheap 30euro wiper motors are faster than that!

And the play of the structure is terrible!! You can see the PID fighting to keep the motors position after a big change in position

As for encoders compatible with MOT3 are available in cheap price (around 4euro each)...

Thanos

Yes, this motors are slower than wiper motors but have 10x torque.
With my design it was difficult to use wiper motors, i need a lot of torque and a long arm to move the structure instead of
a fast motor with little torque.
You are rigth, the play on the structure is terrible, it's my fault, i have had no time to make arms with less play between
the gearmotors and the structure.
But i think you are wrong when you say that you see the PID figthing because the encoders are on the motor shaft, not
the final shaft, so the encoders don't see the play on the structure and don't fight in any way against it...
The solution is to make a link between gearmotors and structure with less play, it's the work for the next week...

If the motors have enough torque, you may try to shorten the leavers, in order to get more speed. Reducing the play is cruicial as well.

Regards

Ciao MaxD, saluti a tutto il forum! ho visto tante ideee interessanti e vorrei anch'io dare via all'impresa di costruire un sim 2DOF (ancora non so se basculante o a pistoni bhoooo) ... per l'elettronica vorrei usare 2 MOMT3 accoppiati a 2 motori da tergicristallo etc. Vorrei capire, se gentilmente potresti darmi qualche consiglio, come interfacciare al meglio il controller - servo con XSIM (ho letto molto sui forum... Sorry!I'm confused!!!) ...
ps qualcuno ha una soluzione del tipo con GTR2??? grazie Michele micma80@hotmail.com