1. Do not share user accounts! Any account that is shared by another person will be blocked and closed. This means: we will close not only the account that is shared, but also the main account of the user who uses another person's account. We have the ability to detect account sharing, so please do not try to cheat the system. This action will take place on 04/18/2023. Read all forum rules.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Now a Download Plan!
  3. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  4. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant. Do not follow these rules can lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.
    Are you a company? Read our company rules

Need some help... Sim not playing nice..

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by Archie, Nov 12, 2015.

  1. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    21,030
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    147,878Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,879 / 54 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Drop the Analog to 512, that will stop exceed message, or you can raise the PID period to about 24 and that will also do the trick.

    Sorry my bad, with 60:1s I am not used to seeing a drop like that as they will not back drive un-powered.

    What is the Main Level % set to in Game Manager?

    Have you triple checked the wiring, particularly any connectors?

    And can you tell us if the motor is getting warm?
  2. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,081
    Location:
    Wollongong, NSW, AU
    Balance:
    3,796Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,379 / 4 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Main level is set to 95% at the moment.

    All wiring is new. I've replaced the leads on the Pots, changed the power leads. What has me baffled, is it is basically a fresh install now and still the same error..

    Guess what... while sat here typing this, not even in any game, but sat on My Sim, the left motor just failed and gave me an MDE. It wasn't even doing anything.
    If I reset power for a split second it comes back..

    It's looking increasingly like my motor has gone / is going bad.

    When I get time I will change the housings over. I can't really move the gearbox because they are mirror images of each other, so actually changing the motor housing is the easier option..
  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    21,030
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    147,878Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,879 / 54 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    I did mention at the onset about checking the brushes, it may be worth doing while you have it off.
  4. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,081
    Location:
    Wollongong, NSW, AU
    Balance:
    3,796Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,379 / 4 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    By jove... I think I've cracked it...

    I've changed everything on this sim now, and still the left side motor was the one causing the issue.
    I even moved the motor body and problem stayed on the left.

    USB I thught... Changed USB leads, and problem still on the left.
    Swap leads over, problem still on the left...

    Sat there and went through everything in my head...
    IF everything has changed, what is the only constant???

    BING!! ME.

    I got my son to drive it, full kilter everything back on and not a single MDE.
    I get on the sim, first corner... MDE.
    Sit forward on the edge of the seat and no more MDE....

    Looks like my Sim is off it's COG! I've dropped a lot of weight due to illness and I was 17Kg heavier when I set my COG for the shoulder mount.
    I am little surprised, as I guess being lighter now, it should not matter, but it seems that it does...

    I will reset my COG / Pivot Point when I get back from Holiday. I'm quietly confident I've cracked it.

    Far out... I so need this holiday :D

    Will keep everyone posted and thank you again!
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  5. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    @Archie , cool, even I didnt think of the "weight" distribution.....
    hope thats the issue.
  6. GIB SimRacing

    GIB SimRacing Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Messages:
    238
    Location:
    Barossa Valley, SA
    Balance:
    983Coins
    Ratings:
    +247 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    I wouldn't have thought that a lighter weight could cause issues like that. There you go, learn something new every day they say. Hopefully that solves the problem for you @Archie.
  7. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Its possible @GIB SimRacing . Now i think of it ive had heavier and weight offset drivers on my sims and because of their imbalance it has caused errors.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,081
    Location:
    Wollongong, NSW, AU
    Balance:
    3,796Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,379 / 4 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Well bugger me. It was the COG.

    I basically started again and stripped the whole frame down and sat myself, belt and seat on a broom pole and the COG was well off, by at least 50mm

    I re-drilled all the mounts, set my Motors to middle and remounted the seat so it was dead level when the motors were at centre.

    Fired up AC and held my breath... Not a single MDE!! I crashed into barriers, flung the car all around the track and no errors at all.

    Sooooo pleased it was that, but also confused as to why being lighter would cause the error. The only thing I can think of is that my weight loss was from everywhere, and as I have recovered I have been conscious to only put on muscle mass, so although I am lighter, my personal COG would have changed considerably.

    We learn something everything day! Far out, it was frustrating, but I tell you what, my understanding of PID and the over-riding importance of a good COG has been cemented.

    Thank you to everyone who contributed. Sometimes you just need to sound off and get feedback to make sure you are not going nuts!! :)
    • Like Like x 3
  9. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    21,030
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    147,878Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,879 / 54 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Care to share the fitness regime....sounds like it has worked a treat :grin
    • Like Like x 1
  10. GIB SimRacing

    GIB SimRacing Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Messages:
    238
    Location:
    Barossa Valley, SA
    Balance:
    983Coins
    Ratings:
    +247 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Great to hear to you got it all working @Archie !

    It seems that the COG is even more important than I previously thought. You are using the 25:1 gearboxes, right? I wonder if the 60:1's would increase the threshold of producing a MDE...My first thought is that they should.:think
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,081
    Location:
    Wollongong, NSW, AU
    Balance:
    3,796Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,379 / 4 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    @GIB SimRacing - Yeah, I think the 60:1 would have masked the issue, as the MDE was only happening on the Braking Surge, so when the car comes to rest there is a violent forwards and then backwards movement as the suspension settles. It was this backwards movement, combined with me pushing back into the seat as I pushed down the brake peddle, causing the motor to drive back and give an MDE.

    Given 60:1's can't be back-driven by hand, I suspect the MDE would not have happened, but the strain on the Motor would have been greater and almost certainly shortened the life of the motor.

    @noorbeast - I'm on a nutritional cleanse program now that helps me build lean muscle while keeping off the fat. Just eating well and digging holes in the garden. (and lifting motion sims!!!) Kept the fat off but built more muscle, so rather than my 'mass' being "my gut" it's more than likely my upper body now. I'm just amazed at how much it changed the sim COG, as I guess it's working harder to throw my upper body around rather than a large butt that sits on the pivot anyway. :D
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2015
  12. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,081
    Location:
    Wollongong, NSW, AU
    Balance:
    3,796Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,379 / 4 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    PS - I go on holiday tomorrow (Tuesday) for 2 weeks - NO WAY I was leaving this till I got back... It was driving me insane and I had to sort it. ;)
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1