[PIMAX] All about the VR headsets

I’m pretty confident they’ll get it sorted but if they don’t, people should be able to recover a lot of their investment by selling on eBay.

Not sure what to make of possible delays. With Rift/Vive we could cancel preorders but won’t be able to cancel the Pimax in a few days.

I’d like to hear something official on refresh rate, would like to hear something from HTC on their gen 2, and it would be nice to hear about schedule. But we may not hear anything on any of that. Time will tell but I think a fair amount will just be on faith. I'm ok waiting a bit if they need extra time to make things right, especially if nothing else is coming soon from LG or HTC or if the specs just don’t compare.

With things looking sold out, we're either along for the ride or on the sidelines.

Seems Pimax have been misleading people about the refresh rate. Its currently only able to run at 75hz, despite the CEO telling everyone it was running at 90hz.
http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/version-3-prototype-review/3822/17

I would not expect to see a working eye tracking system (third party) for quite some time. I don't personally have a issue with 75 Hz - although I did order the 'X' which should have less issues with through put. Ran with 45hz for ages until I upgraded to a 1080 TI with no ill effects. Went into this kickstater eyes wide open about the risks - I would be surprised if there were no issues with something this cutting edge.

http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/version-3-prototype-review/3822/103

Dear all,
Sorry for the later response since it’s sunday evening in China.
Recently, our hardware core team are focusing on build new V4 prototype. So we ask our Co-CEO Nordic lead the NYVR roadshow. Nordic and our FAE are all software background. But the refresh rate feature mainly relate to hardware and firmware. Their expression might be insuffient or inaccurate. So there’s some misunderstanding. let’s try to explain more details regarding the refresh rate.

1. Without “brain-warp”
   Our HW system support 90Hz, including the bandwidth of DP \processor\ driver IC. As you know, our orinigal solution is 2*HDMI. And then we moved to 1*DP. Big difference between these two solutions. The games can run at 90Hz on previous solution. But not so stable, sometime we have to spend ~1 hour to set up the demo kit. Unfortunately, the stability of high rate (>85Hz) is a little bit worse in the new DP solution in V3 prototype. So we decide to lower the refresh rate to 75Hz for the new public demos. And do more internal test from 75Hz to 85Hz. Up to now, the 82Hz is pass the initial test standard. And now we’re try to optimze on 85Hz. then we will do more compatibility and stability test. Since 90Hz is the upper limit of the whole system. Several hardware reasons might make the refresh rate drop: the clock rate, cable length, display adapter FPC, EMI desense issue. Contact impedance from different Video Card’s DP connectors .......

The stability is much important，because our HMD should work out of box in thousands of computes condition. So we need do more optimzation in HW design and more compatible test. Then we can give a clear answer.

1. With “Brain-warp”
   The refresh rate is important to VR experience, meanwhile it is challenging to system architecture. That’s why Pimax will bring Brain-warp to our consumers. This technology will definitely double the refresh rate to get much less MTP.
   All games can run 120Hz-180Hz if your GPU could support. You can enable or disable the Brain-warp function after the performance test when you get the HMD.
   If you enable brain warp feature, you don’t need care about 5Hz or 8Hz drop of the refresh rate.
   
   
2. MTP = senor reponse time+ GPU rendering time + 1/refresh rate + display switch time
   The refresh rete is one fact of the MTP. Not all facts. There’re many other solutions could get good MTP performance. Including ATW/ASW/BrainWarp/.....
   

So, if I understand correctly, it sounds like it’s possible we may not get a full stable 90 Hz. The problems they mention may not be easy to work past. On the other hand, it sounds like 82 is stable and they expect to hit 85 Hz. The whole process chain may block 90 Hz though.

But "brain warp" apparently doubles or nearly doubles the refresh rate and warps the images as necessary based on sensor input. The warp stuff for Vive and Rift is in software, though. As long as it is in hardware/firmware on the headset itself, maybe it’s a good solution. 75 Hz was DK2. In stuff like DCS and PCars2, I’m sure I’m dropping into 45 Hz actual frame rates but SteamVR is doubling that up. Some motions aren’t well compensated for. 85 Hz is close enough to 90 that that probably isn’t an issue, and brain warp may be really nice. I guess we need to know more about brain warp.

Disappointing, though, but maybe no big deal.

Well, just checked the FAQ on the Kickstarter and not sure I like this. All they do is alternate rendering one eye and then the other instead of rendering and transferring both at the same time. They quote up to a 190 Hz under brain warp and maybe they can do that. Rendering and sending each eye may even be a more efficient use of hardware since instead of all the stop/start of regular dual eye frames with the video card sitting idle between renders, it turns into a video card running more consistently and the DP wire being used more continuously.

But for that to work, they have to change how frames are rendered and separate rendering each eye so the process is serialized. And maybe it's already serialized. Need to see what the VR draw commands are, if they render simultaneously, etc. But I would think companies would have already been on this because it does sound like it would unload the GPU. I’m a bit worried about compatibility by changing the paradigm and in some ways it sounds a bit like VR-SLI but just on one card and alternating eyes. Anyone know?

What is Brainwarp?

Brainwarp is a set of technologies Pimax use in the VR headsets to lower down hardware requirement, reduce latency, and boost refresh rate for a smoother VR experience.
In the scenario where you PC can run a game with 60-90 Hz, Pimax VR can increase the frame rate to 90Hz with a technique similar to ATW. In that way, we decrease the requirement of hardware.
However, the better the graphic card, the less work the headset has to do, and the better experience you will enjoy. That's why we recommend GTX980/1070, equivalents or above for the best 8K experience.
Meanwhile, you can turn on the option for the headset to render and display image for the two eyes in a sequence. In that way, we doubled refresh rate and cut the latency in half. You can perceive the experience smoother with largely reduced latency.

I went to Kickstarter today to order the basic 8k package and found they were all gone. I was rather annoyed as they weren't limited previously but I guess you shouldn't procrastinate over things. As consolation I ordered the 5k version, hope it has reasonable display quality.

They broke some bundled units into just headsets so there are more bare headsets available at the time of this post. But big discussions are happening on Reddit on if they are using DP 1.2 or 1.4, if the display panels are 75 Hz or 90, etc.

So they ended up getting over 4 million dollars.. Funds collected - No going back now .

Its one of the reasons I went with the 'X'. It has duel display interfaces, which have more of a chance of running the required data throughput. If I'm not mistaken, I think the V1 and Maybe V2 used dual HDMI interfaces.

So has everyone filled out their survey? I had the option of this 'Receive 8K first before 8K X is finished, and return 8K to us for 8K X when it is ready' so decided to go with it. At least it gives me a '8K' headset while they sort out the 'X' although as I see it technically , if I were PIMAX, would have stayed with dual display inputs even for the non 'X' version (As they had fitted on V1/2) - it just makes it so much easier to drive the required high data rates, which they are now struggling to do with a single input..

I did not order the 8K X, so, I will... Should receive the headset on January. I know they offer adapters, but I don't think they provide cables. Anyway, I ordered the 10m cable. I ordered the leap motion too. Not a necessity, but more a new technology gimmick attraction. I may regret it, but, it's too late now. Do or do not...

Just catching up on my correspondence and found these from Pimax:

1 Dec 17:

Hello Everyone,

After a long period of time, we finally got the prototype of V4. Here is a list of V4 prototype improving and solving parts.

Hardware:
a. Optimized the IPD adjustment design and mold;
b. Changed the cloth around the lenses for better elasticity and leakproofness / better hardware IPD adjustment experience;
c. Changed the material of the CLPL holder to light-weighted alloy for better heat dissipation and strength of the headset.

Software:
a. Optimized optical design
b. Debugging with Brainwarp
c. Improving ASW algorithm
d. Developing the production testing software and tools.

Thanks

Matthew


19 Dec 17:

Yes, we plan to start ship on Jan.

We want to ship the headsets to you as soon as possible, meanwhile, the opinion of our community makes total sense that quality comes first.

Our plan is to invite VR enthusiasts to check out our new prototype at CES on Jan. If they give us the green light, then we stick to our original shipping plan; if they think we need to further improve the product, then we prefer not to rush. It all depends on whether enthusiasts like the experience or not.

When we launch on Kickstarter several months ago, we only have a prototype with us and want to learn from the expectations of the talented global VR community. We are lucky enough to have people to try out the prototypes and share their thoughts, and now we are working on 8K to make it better.

We are still trying to keep our original shipping schedule, and again, quality comes first.

People don't have to wait anymore when we launch 8K on e-commerce channels, the price will be different though.

The experience of our 5946 8K backers is our top priority. If you have anything in your mind to make 8K better, please do not hesitate to poke @matthew.xu

Thanks for your support!

bests,
xunshu


Lets see if they can keep a Late January 18 shipping date - I'm not too optimistic even without a version V5 .

You guys remind me that it is supposed to be ship in less than a month!
Okay, it probably won't be ship that date. Still... It's really not that far.

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Smart business, gut wrenching in many respects