Race 07 Effect 24 / Velocity Effects?

Just to make sure that we are thinking along the same lines, Acceleration and Speed are two different inputs for an SCN5 in the Synaptrix. In an earlier post you gave an example of a way that we could achieve dynamic actuator speed that has a min/max value to ensure that it stays within the bounds of realism.

Is your last post indicating that we would be able to calculate a value for the acceleration input that is seperate from vehicle speed as well?

We are getting outside of my area of expertise here. How could you calculate acceleration values? Change in speed value in a given period of milliseconds?

What can I do to help make this a reality so that we can begin testing it? I think this would be a big leap forward for 2DOF X-Sim users if we get it right. I may just be able to pass my own realism test

Perhaps it is my lack of knowledge regarding the issue, but I think it may be preferrable to use such a speed precalculation within the SCN5 controller:

PC // proportional constant (adjustable by user)

TargetDistance = target - position(current) // Calculate error (target distance)
SCN5Speed = PC * TargetDistance // Calculate SCN5 speed

(based on Thanos' PID tutorial)

Sure, it will slow down the polling, but imho not that significant to justify using raw ingame speed data without precalculation to set the actuators accelleration or speed.
At least it would be way easier to set up, and usable even for games that do not output speeds for each axis like rfactor does.
The option for even better/faster and therefor more complex setups will be outstanding anyway, but I think we need such an easy to set up proportional speed control for now.

If such a calculation is not possible within the SCN5 controller code with sufficient update speed, we should try to get it implemented to our needs.

If so, why do you think Thanos programmed the proportional code anyway, if a comparable result can be achieved by decreasing simply the actuator speed...
Have you ever considered that a big portion of the lag could be caused by the 33ms Profiler1 speed and the weak windscreen wiper motors?
As well I think the curbs are not noticeable very well in Christians simulator, as he has set the strenght for vertical effects just to 5%...

Regards
Christian

Wow...I am completely misunderstanding something. I don't know how this topic got so complicated. The main issue in my mind is that different vehicles need different actuator speed and acceleration values in order to feel realistic. Furthermore, there are some driving scenarios in any vehicle that require at a minimum the actuator speed to be variable in order to feel realistic.

There are 3 inputs available in the profiler for SCN5's. They are:

-Position
-Speed
-Acceleration

Is it intended that an axis be mapped to each of these inputs in order to accomplish my goal?

If so, then how did we get from my original post about modifying the Plugins to export values for speed and possibly acceleration to the conversation that I see above? Maybe I'm missing something due to my limited knowledge but it seems like we are addressing everything but the topic directly??

In the mean time, I am going to write a small piece of code that allows me to override the fixed speed and acceleration setting of X-Sim 2 via the buttons on my steering wheel so I don't have to leave Race 07 every time I change vehicles. That at least solves one of my issues. The other issue where certain scenarios do not feel realistic I will have to live with until this gets figured out or I learn how to write my own Race 07 plugin that outputs a value for actuator speed.

Because you adressed to my personal opinion:

And as I am not sure if this method is good in any case (for example longitunidal speeds), I tried to show up what I am thinking about the issue, and about how it could be improved Imho.

Regards
Christian

That is right. But I think it fails for the longitudinal axis, as the actuator speed would depend on the vehicle speed.
As explained before, a full braking at 200kmh would cause differnt effect to the actuator speed than a full brake with 100kmh. Not sure if that feels right...

After all of this discussion, I now pose the following questions:

1.) Would it be valuable to add X,Y & Z speed outputs to the Race 07 Plugin? I personally found these useful in rFactor

2.) Is there an existing value in the rFactor and Race 07 Plugins that is useful for mapping to acceleration?

3.) Could acceleration outputs be added to the plugins, or should it remain a constant?

4.)Since Minimum speed and acceleration values must exist, it it acceptable to use a symetrical axis offset to achieve this?

There are two things that I know for certain.

1.) Dynamic speed values improve the realism
2.) A no compromise profile cannot be created with a fixed acceleration value.

I am not trying to be a pain in the butt here, I am simply trying to achieve the most realistic motion possible. If there is another way, or a better way, I would be happy to help implement it in any way that I am capable of.

Then I misunderstood, and I am not using the software the way that it was designed to be used. Presently, I am sending dynamic speed values to the SCN5 actuators. This improved realism but I felt that it could be improved upon by also sending dynamic acceleration values tro the actuators, and improving the output values in the plugin for this purpose.

If I am not supposed to be sending dynamic values to the Speed and Acceleration inputs of the SCN5's then I would like to suggest that we consider this as a supported approach because it seems to work rather well.

Would this be the easier if you take RPM ?

To clear up any confusion. I am not using RPM, MPH, KMH etc... in the calculation for the speed input of the SCN5. I am only doing this in rFactor because the rFactor plugin offers X,Y, and Z axis SPEED values in addition to the values that the Race 07 and most others output. I started this thread because I was happy with the improvements and was hoping that we could modify the Race07 plugin to also output X, Y and Z SPEED values as well.

I do not suggest calculating the speed input off of any other input. If I understanf SirNoName properly, then I am using the profiler / SCN5 inputs in a way that was not intended, so my request may no longer be valid?

I did understood you correctly. But localSpeed Z in rfactor is equal to ingame vehicle speed.
Though using the localSpeed X to set the acutator speed for lateral effects should work well.

I guess we will wait for an official verdict from SirNoName as to whether or not we should assign dynamic speed values to the SCN5's. Until then, I would suggest not using the rFactor profile that I uploaded with the dynamic speed axis. If the software wasn't intended to be utilized in this manner then I would guess that there could be unintended consequences that I don't want to be responsible for.

I never claimed that jerking stops were a problem. I already have a fitting acceleration value that I am pleased with under braking and acceleration. I spent hours testing different speed/acceleration combinations and have arrived back at my original settings that I spent days discovering in the first place.

All I asked at the beginning of this thread, was would it be possible to add X,Y & Z speed outputs to the Race 07 plugin!!! I asked this because the rFactor plugin has them and it seemed to improve the realism SLIGHTLY. There is nothing terribly wrong with the realism at present. No major adjustments, fixes or debates are required IMHO. It already feels pretty darn good!. Applying the speed dynamically in rFactor made a small improvement, therefore I asked if we could do the same in Race 07.

Is there any chance that I can get an answer to my now 8 day old question about adding some information to the Race 07 Plugin?

I will take a look at this source code tomorrow. I didn't realize it was that simple or I would have saved myself the inter-language communication frustration and did it myself long ago.

Thanks, and I'll post back, hopefully with progress instead of more questions

According to the SimBin documentation:

So wouldn't VertAcceleration = AccelerationY (/9.81)?

Also, I see your point about the 2D vs 3D calculations. Euler equations are new to me. I have successfully avoided this type of math for the last 15 years. This should be a bit of a challenge, but assuming that the helper functions are appicable to the above XYZ coorindate documentation, then I think I can stumble my way through it.

I am back from my vacation now and am ready to begin work on this plugin modification. Hopefully I won't have too many questions. I haven't looked at C++ or MFC in about 10 years!

When I open this solution on Visual Studio 2008, it forces me to convert it to the latest version. It fails to convert the solution successfully and I am then unable to view / edit the project.

Yes. It says...

So Visual Studio 2008 Professional should not be a problem since it is higher than 2005 and greater than standards edition as a minumum.

There is no sourcecode sub folder in my other stuff folder? Is there a seperate installation that I am missing?

Is there something else that I should derive from the manual that I missed?