Started 2DOF SCN5 Platform for FlightSim FSX

Many thanks for both of your replies, much appreciated.

I will answer egoexpress first. This is a shock for me as I thaught that the basic movement profile was part of X-Sim software. I have read in the forum about all the improvments that are made to the car profiles but had thaught that this was all of the experts at this improving the basic profile such as we in the flightsim world improve aircraft,gauges etc. The most important part of your post for me was Lets see if I can help !!

I guess the more important movement for starters are the axis on the Yoke which would be x,y,z data, from what you point out it would be too much to include acceleration also.

I have tried to locate effect numbers and have located the following ;
Elevator Position Control : OBB2
Alieron Position Control : OBB6
Rudder Position Control : OBBA
Trim Position Control : OBC0
I hope these are what you asked for.

To answer your other questions. I have been a subscriber to FSUIPC4 for many years and had the required updated .dll in the FSX folder. I slected MSFlight V2 from the Force-Sender Folder. On the Input Setup I did see a bundle of changing values , I did not outline them all in my previous post.

TO CXC SIMULATIONS

As you can read from above I am floundering at the moment and any help you would be kind enough to offer would be very much appreciated.

Kind regards

Toni

Forget the input device data at all.

I mentioned to search for aircraft Xrot, Yrot, Zrot data. Probably these are degree values in deg or rad.
Or in case you prefer accelleration value, then search for XYZ g-force data.

Chris may help you perhaps...

Would be great if you both could work out a good FSX profile for SCN5s.

regards
Christian

I have searched through FSX and Pete Dawsons manuals to try and get what you asked for and hope that the following may be what you need ;

Ailerons_Left : 65611
Ailerons_Right : 65613
Elev_Up : 65616
Elev_Down : 65608
Rudder_Left : 65688
Rudder_Right : 65690

You mentioned Xrot Data,Yrot Data, Zrot Data, I can not find anything ether in FSX or Pete Dawsons that goes under this heading. Perhaps it is somewhere you could direct me to if the above is not sufficient?

Again many thanks

Toni

no, not at all.

please open the force-profiler and choose the MSFlightV2 plugin. There you will find some usable effects. Some default ones, and some to choose.

Ok, Here are some basic instructions:

*Launch Force Profiler
*Load my attached profile
*Click Interface Settings
*Click on the SCN5 plugin and set the Speed to 18000 and Acceleration to 15 (these are extremely low numbers but they are a work-around I'm using to a problem mentioned in this thread: fsuipc-output-speed-t1831.html )

*Launch Force Sender
*Select the FlightSimV2 Plugin in Force Sender (A new window will open when you do so)
*In the new window, add the values listed in the attached screen-shot (full disclosure: my profile doesn't even use all of these but I forget which ones it does, so just add them all for now. Later we can clean this up)
*Click Update user values in FSUIPC plugin
*Leave this window open, go back to Force Sender and click Try send data

*Go back to Force Profiler and Click Start
*Now launch FSX

It should have motion now if everything worked well. My hope is that it does, and together we can work out an even better motion profile. The one I have is really just a quikie and only was really tested on the F-18.

A bit convoluted, I know, but it is DIY software If your looking for something a bit more user freindly, you might look into this project here: simxperience-commander-for-x-sim-nearing-beta-stage-t1416.html

It's still very much a work in progress (and I have yet to make FSX work with it) but it is great tool when you get it working. Makes things very simple.

Be aware of actuator damage when using high speeds and low accelleration. I'd propose to use lower speed (10000e.g.) values, when using that low accelleration values. At least for the initial tests.

Keep in mind, that the SCN5 accelleration value is the SCN5 braking value as well!

If the actuators hits the end stop, the drive pin may break!

150mm SCN5 do gain more impact as the 100mm ones though equal interface settings!

I am afraid that I am getting a screen up when I try to load cxcsimulations program which reads : WARNING : AN INTERFACE WAS UNPLUGGED and in the line underneath it refers to Left axis position out.

Now I have removed both axis and gone through the setting up program several times and still get the same result. What I will do is go to bed and start with a fresh head inthe morning and try again and I will let you know if I had any better luck.

Goodnight and thanks again.

Toni

Generally, the one who offers a rn2 savefile to the community may have connected the SCN5 to other comports, so you have to reassign the SCN5s to the correcsponding axes (left/right) in the dialog.

Or exclude the universal serial output formula checkbox when loading a profile from someone else.

regards

You are quite right again. I tried excluding universal serial output formula checkbox but this did not work so I tried the Exchange this port and all with same name option and selected left actuator and then it moved on but said the Right axis position out so I selected right actuator and the program fnished loading.

When FSX loaded I got movement in the platform with FSX for the first time which was great. The profile deals with acceleration and you can feel the seat going back when you accelerate and going forward when you reduce the acceleration. I have copied the profile with these changes made which will now load directly to the correct comports on my PC.

As I have said in a previous post my first choice would be to have the yoke effects and would love to work with CXCSimulations as was suggested to provide a really good profile. Only one small problem I know very little about providing help and would be most grateful if you could give me some instructions as to how you created this profile initally. The instructions that you gave with useing it were most clear and very easy to follow ( I should have known about the different comports that you used ). I have had a look at the content of the profile program and can understand roughly the info that it contains but have not got a clue as to how you selected and put it there. To get to know more about it I thaught about editing and making changes within the program and then saving same ( just as we do to change other aspects of flightsim programs ) but I am not sure that this would work. So going back to what I said earlier if you could provide me with basic instructions on how to lets say get the yoke instead of acceleration axis recognised I feel that I could then make a worthwhile contribution to building a model flightsim profile and put all of these car profiles to shame !!

Look forward to working together as up to now I have most thankfully recieved all the wonderful help from you guys in the forum and I can assure you would not be as far as I am without it .

Kind regards

Toni

You had overridden it already, when you have loaded the rn2 the first time^^

You want your seat to react to use Joystick input instead of game data? Really?

When I say Yoke response what I mean is that most of my flying is done with B737's and twin engine props which involves takeoff and landing and navigation between VOR's and NDB,s which involves a good deal of direction changes. Now most of the movement involved is connected to the what the yoke demands. Whether I get this directly from the Yoke or from game data I dont mind as which ever provides the better performance is the important thing. My eventual goal would be to get a combination of slow moderate movements for the above and also to include movement from acceleration.

Now in a previous post you said that to get both would be extremely difficult for starting and that the best thing to do is select one of them. For the type of flying that I do as pointed out above the most important one for me would be for the seat to follow the angle of the plane.

I dont fully understand when you seem surprised that I refer to getting yoke effects instead of game data. Are the effects that the yoke provides not game data ? Would it be better to provide these effects not through harnesing the yoke effects directly but through what you describe as game data ? As usual I am a little lost here and would appreciate advice on the best way to provide these effects.

Again your help is most appreciated.

Kind regards

Toni

I think I understand now; with such a big (cumbersome) plane, you don't think there is enough acceleration g-forces?

Ok, then. I have some ideas for motion of this type. I think you want X,Y,Z Position (or whatever is is called in FSUIPC) rather than X,Y,Z Acceleration. This will give you the plane's orientational relationship to the ground rather than it's change in g-forces.

I'm not at work this weekend (where our simulators are) but I can look up the values for you when I get back. I should be pretty easy to substitute the new values for the ones I have in my profile.

To me this seems incorrect to me though. The reason is, when I am in a commercial airliner, if I'm not looking out the window, I have no idea of our orientation. The only thing I feel is the g-forces when the pilot makes a change to our orientation. After the change, the G's go away.

For Chris

This would be fantastic as I will be able to study what changes you make in the profile program to change from acceleration to , we will call it flight angle, and I feel this will give me a much better idea of some of the content in the making of a profile. When you say you will substitute the new values do you mean that you will just change the relevent numbers of the action e.g. 3060,3068 etc. for the appropriate numbers for the new flight angle action ? Anyway I will be able to see this in the changed profile program, wont I ?
To my conception of flying, and I may find that I am wrong, if I am flying in lets say a B737 and the pilot in flight banks 45 degrees I do most certainly feel that change of orientation ( Flight Angle) while on the other hand if he is taking off ,with no change in altitude, and increases his speed from a standstill to 160 m.p.h. in a short distance then I experiance Acceleration. In simple terms for the seat change the first would be expressed in left or right movement and the second would be expressed in backward movement. On landing it would be expressed in forward movement. Does this make sense or am I going at it all wrong ?
As I said in a previous post I would love to experiance both of these movements in a profile but I can understand what Egoexpress said that for starters one would be enough and later when I understand the programing better to create the two in a profile.
My sincere thanks and looking forward to getting stuck in and actually contributing something to a profile.

For Egoexpress

I have been racking my brain about your question ; You want your seat to react to use Joystick input instead of game data? Really? and eventually it has hit me what you might mean.

Lets take a simple example. If you are flying in a straight line at a constant speed and decide to change your course by 45 degrees. You turn your joystick from twelve o'clock to nine o'clock to achieve this which will only take you 1 second , now your aircraft will take some time to accomplish this change in direction, perhaps 8 seconds. Now am I right in thinking that if you use the Joystick Input the seat will move in 1 second whereas if you use Game Data Input it will move in accordance with the movement of the aircraft which would be 8 seconds and this would be far more realistic ?

Kind regards

Toni

I haven't forgotten about you....we have just gotten super busy at the shop getting sims ready for upcoming events. I promise to get to this when I can.

I have done an edit of Chris's Flightsim Profile as you can see below. The main reason is that I am trying to understand how a profile is created so that I can attempt to create a new profile which would be more suitable for my needs as explained in previous mails. I have removed from the profile the sections which I dont think contribute anything to it and to reduce it to a more workable size. Now the efffects, numbers 3060,3068,3080 and 3070, which are acceleration effects, have been installed into this profile through FSUIPC but I can not see where there is any reference to these numbers anywhere in the profile which was created by Force Profiler .I can only assume that Force Profiler has renumbered these effects to its own set of numbers.

In the photos below you can see that I have highlighted what I think are these new numbers at the very bottom and those in black are commom to both axis whereas the ones in red are only used by Axis No.1. Could someone please explain in as simple terms as possable what is the process that one goes through in creating a profile ?

What all this boils down to is that : 1. I have completed the building of my motion platform. 2. I have tested it and mechanicaly it works perfectly 3. I am unable to create a flightsim profile that suits my setup simply because I cannot grasp how you go about it !! By the way I have read the manual and other threads on site several times.

Much appreciation for help to overcome this final hurdle.

Toni

Can anyone offer help ?

Hehe, yeah I'm looking for this as well. It seems to be a continuing theme here....check the forums.

I'm trying to get a firm grasp on what each value means exactly (in layman's terms for the non-physics major). I've taken guesses and created profiles to fit these guesses, but I'm not entirely sure that they are accurate. As such, I'm not really sure I'm in a good place to be teaching I fear I may pass on the wrong information.

I'd really like to see a good manual for each individual math plugin option (with an example of each?) and each value within put in the wiki. Something of a quick-start guide for the totally un-initiated. I would be happy to participate, but as I said, I think someone needs to explain it to me first

Can some of the super-users step up here? I know the information exists in the forum somewhere, but it's grown so large (and multilingual) that is really hard for the new folks to compile it into something readable. I fear that so many get frustrated and move on because of this.

I'm sure it behooves me as a commercial simulator company owner to keep this a black art, but as an enthusiast first, it seems that I should help as well.

Anyhow, I hope this happens. As always, let me know how I can help.

BTW, how did you make that table you have there? That's pretty useful.

Chris you have put your finger on it and perhaps had more courage than I have to ask for more help in this area to be available. I have scoured all of the various threads in the different sections of the forum and I would say that there are more requests for guidance and explanations on the creation of profiles than most other topics. Several of the members who are most talented with this subject have ,with the best will in the world , have said they would provide an easy to understand explanation but I can understand that they have discovered new areas of motion platforms to explore and need the time to do this, however , I feel if us dummies could get past this part of the overall scene there would be a lot more we could contribute to the forum on the improvement of motion platforms but at the moment I for one (and I am sure a lot more like me ) am just snookered. The way I would describe it is that I have built the hardware, installed the fantastic software so kindly provided by our gurus but have not got the key to start the engine !!

If you look in the profile section you will find that there are very few creating there own profiles , yes certainly there are plenty useing profiles provided by a small number of members and tweaking them to there own taste and requirment. I feel that if these members, like myself , could be tutored in a basic way to understand how to create a profile we would see a much larger and varied selection of profiles in the profile section for everyones use.

Now you asked Chris how you could help and even though you admit that you are not in full understanding of all the aspecs in the creation of a profile, I can assure you that I am way behind you and you could help me with the following ; (when I catch up with you all we can do then is to keep appealing to the Gurus for help !! )

1.Starting with no Profile loaded and you get Force Profiler started and transfer from FSUIPC any new effects that you require.

2. I understand you use output1:1(GForce) to get your effects into Math Setup. Now when you select Sender Input No from this does it bear any relationhip to the effect no. in FSUIPC ?

3. When you choose Max and Min in this I presume that this designates the range that you wish to give to this effect and depending on what the efect is it will vary ? Could you give me some idea as to what the difference in ranges might be e.g For braking on landing Max : 300 Min : 10. whereas for full left or right roll Max:1000 Min:1 ?

4. In what order do you give these inputs and when you have one input completed how do you confirm it and move onto the next input ?

5. If you remember you said you would look up the effect nos. from FSUIPC for to provide orientation. Coould you explain how to get these ?

To put it in a nutshell if you could just put in the proper sequence how to arrange and input effects I would be most grateful. You could just take as an example one effect, does not make any differnce which one.

On your question of how I made the tables in my last mail. It is ver simple , Just open the Profile M2 file with WordPad, edit any entries that you feel do not provide any usefulness e.g. Equals Zero,then select the appropriate section and transfer it to a titled column in Excel and then just dress up the spreadsheet the same as you would any other spreadsheet.

Looking forward to hearing frm you.

Kind regards

Toni

Yes

Yes. The Effect Number is the same in FSUIPC and Force Profiler. FSUIPC comes with some pre-assigned effects (21-30). It also allows you to add your own from the FSUIPC Table (Effect 31-40). - Remember to Send a Test Signal with Force Sender in order to update Force Profiler with any changes you make -

This is the trial and error section for me. I had to play with these a lot. Based on my testing (and skipping those I don't know):

Invert input is pretty simple. If the axis is reversed on your motion rig, simply check this.

Range is the range that x-sim will use of output info that the game is sending out. Now, I've seen some reference of people actually measuring this somehow by running the game and pushing it to the limits, but I havn't figured out how to actually measure it myself yet. Until I do, I simply guess a number and test it. If the motion (extents that the actuator travels - not speed or acceleration) is too much, I increase the maximum values. The minimum values are good for removing any unwanted noise (great for some racing games)

Split negative and positive means you want a different range for the negative and positive. A good example of this would be if you wanted more braking feel than acceleration in a driving game.

Intensity seems to adjust the speed at which this axis is fed to the actuators...I'm not entirely sure about this one, so I'd love a guru to chime in here.

Clicking the Cancel does just that.

Clicking the Insert in math list and continue button does just that.

The rest are a complete mystery to me.

It seems to me that any modifiers are applied from the bottom-up. IE: if you add a Washout filter, it will only apply to the plugins above it in the list.

See above for continuing.

Well, the first place to loo is in the default Effects list (Effect 21-30). If you can't find the effect you want there, then you need to create a custom one.

In the FSUIPC window, click Show table of all exportable elements this will give you a table of all the effects available through this plugin.

Pick a blank Effect (31-40) and paste all the available information.

The only blank I don't fully understand s Scaling Factor. I think this means how many steps this effect will have, but I'm not sure.




I think I've armed you with enough knowledge to do this on your own now, so let me know how it goes.

The only other thing I would suggest is working on one effect (isolated) at a time in order to get it feeling how you want before you move onto the next one. This prevents other effects from altering your perception. Only at the end do I combine them all and make group changes from there.


I hope this helps. I'll be out of tow for a couple of weeks, but I'll check in from time to time to see how this is going Good luck!

Chris ,my sincere thanks for your very informative reply which I will ponder and try out in the next couple of days. If I should discover anything in addition to that which you have kindly pointed out I will let you know , after that we are both in the hands of the gurus whom I will continue to seek help for both of us if need be and I am sure that they will help us out.

Again thank you very much and the best of luck to you on your trip.

Kind Regards

Toni