X-Sim support for SCN5 actuators

Yes, I did! Well, sure I had to pay the 19% EusT taxes, but I havent had to pay any additional duties at all :yippiee:





At first I want to say that it passed customs totally legal. I went to the customs office, and asked for my parcel. The officer told me, that he would like to know whats the parcel' content, as they havent been able to determine it.
I told him that it was a mechatronics axis with integrated, autonomeous, intelligent controlling unit attached, which purpose it is to process data autonomeously into motion, like a printer, but without ink-head. Then I told him as well, that it receives hex strings from computers via RS485 serial connection, but as it has its own positioning controller, it has to be seen as autonomeous.
Because of that it is obvious, that it is a automatic data processing machine, like described within the number 8471 9000000.
At this point I've heard a silent click, which has been the officers brain for sure, that disengaged. :lol:
I dont know if I have really convinced him, or if he hadnt got the nerves anymore to listen my explanations longer.

But he assented, that the 8471 9000000 has to be the matching ID for the SCN5.

Once again, I havent screwed them. It was treated the legal way.

But duty ID assignments (TARIC for example) are in some way a subject of interpretation. You just have to convince them, that your position is the right one ;D

If you keep in mind, that the 8471 9000000 is the ID for computers and laptops.
With a good portion of imagination, a SCN5 is a computer in some way for sure

In the end, I cannot assure you, that the officer, that handles your SCN5 parcel, will let it pass as 8471 9000000, but you should try it at least :thbup:

Heres a pic of the SCN5:



Tomorrow it'll go on its journey to Sirnoname :thbup:

Regards
Christian

Good job Christian congratulations you make that esay, don't forget that I have the cable configurations in case that need for power supply, data in RS485 and emergency brake just let me know.

Charly

Amazing news! :clap:

Things are moving along... thanks for the effort! :clap:

Are these protections what is missing from Frex software/driver?

You can bet on it ;D

Its likely that it is not easy to find the right ratio of safety zone and worktravel, as the driver wheight is everytime different. As well setups where the driver/seat is not in pivot, or the driver tends to push/pull on the wheel, will dislocate the optimal internal actuator braking points.

For example: Let's say the system is setup to have 15% safety zone on to both travel ends. If the driver is lightwheigt and does not pull/push on the wheel while driving, then there should be no prob. But if the driver is a footballer, wrenching the wheel while driving and his setup is out of pivot, then this 15% safetyzone could be not enough.

Therefor I assumed already, that it could be safer to use 150mm SCN5 actuators, just to have more safety zone to the limits. Perhaps it would be worth to spend some bucks more for the 150mm one, than having to replace the whole acutator in case of failure.

Regards
Christian

Hum... I feel like I fall into that footballer category...
That is why I set my actuators to move just half (50mm) of their total 100mm range!

It is the only sort of protection I could include on my SCM as it is not protected from the driver/sw side. :thbd:

What you guys think?

Cheers,

Me

Hi,

Sirnoname has got the acutator, and has started the implementation already. But it will take some time.

Please have a look at this document to see that it is not that easy.
http://www.electromate.com/db_support/d ... COM-EN.pdf
In case someone is able to help, then send me a PM please.

We'll keep you up to date.

Regards
Christian

Hello just cheking if you have any news :?

Charly

Christian just a quick question regarding the simforce GT actuator project ? been looking at the scn5 Actuator and externally it seems to be a stepper motor driving a ballscrew something similar to the atuator that was experimented with a while back.. my question is i dont for one minute underestimate the design work that went into the SCN5 ( it is a work of art and expensive to match LOL:_) )but am i missing the point that once you have the Motor spec and the leadscrew Pitch and leave out for the moment electronics element would we not be able to come up with a linear actuator for the Average Home DIY simulator builder... i know this seems and easy thing to say but was that the reason the other project stopped ?? i belive i read another post where ADGUN and yourself discussed the advantages and disadvantages of the DIY system but looking at the external picture of the SCN5 it does not seem you guys were far off the target :thbup:

Hi
I am very interested in there holding force.
I am not gegative about a actuator project ,but must keep money in the pocket(my wife lost there job)
Saving money for a mill is comming to a hold to.
we can assamble one but we must make 6 pices
I will come back on this but can,t tell you how long it,s take.
Regards Ad

Well, you are right, externally our DIY acutators seems pretty much similar to the SCN5. But the internals are totally different. We have had used a nanotec linear spindle motor instead of ballscrew drives.
This one is smaller, but its the same principle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvWi3YhKdMY&feature=related

Although the motor had better specs than the SCN5 ones (double torque), we have not been able to reached an acceptable/comparable speed.
Why? Let me explain:
Afair stepper motors usually are categorised in 0,9° (precision motors) and 1,8° (standard motors) per step.
Steppers loose torque the more rpm they are turning.
As the torque decreases by increasing the steps per second, the maximum frequency is very restricted.
So as the stepper motor has been similar in size and specs to the SCN5 ones, there has been something which we hadnt considered obviously.

By research, we determined, that the SCN5 uses some exotic stepper motors from Japan-Servo with 3,6° per step.
At this point we've realised, that we never ever would be able to get our actuator to similar speeds.

Imagine, if you drive both stepper drives with a frequency of 1khz, the Japan-Servo motor makes 10 rotations/sec, while our acutator only makes 5 rotations/sec.
And this though both motors are powered, with the same voltage and freqency.

Knowing that, it became clear very suddenly, why our steppers had the double amount of torque, by the same size. -> Because the max speed and accelleration was just half!

Well, perhaps with more experience regarding stepper drives wouldnt have overseen this issue.
But in the end we learned alot at least.

I appreciate all attempts for a DIY actuator, if he thinks that he is able to do it better.

But keep the costs in mind!

For example a SCN5 like DIY acutator:
ballscrew~150Euro
spindle end machining ~50Euro
motor ~50Euro
bearings and bearing housings ~50-100 Euro

So let's say with casing and some additional parts approx 350-450Euro per actuator.

Well, you can have a plug-n-play SCN5 for 400Dollar. Quite cheap in comparance, I think.

If someone wants to start a project, then use a matching forum section with a new thread for it please, and keep this thread on topic. Thanks


Regards
Christian

Btw, our SCN5 test-actuator moves, but there is alot of finetuning and interfacing job needed still. We'll keep you updated...

Hi


If he thinks that he is able to do it better.
I NEVER DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards AD

Hi Guys thanks for the info 8) i have to say no its not a case of i could do better, it's more to do with trying to understand how you guys came so close on a great project and stopped ..there had to be a reason and now i have the answer : i have loads of acme Thread ( Trapizoidal M12 x 3 ) that i used on my CNC Project and also have stepper motors Type 23 ( will look at he lable for the Torque rating when i get home ) so wondered if i could imitate your designs and learn something else on the way.. I have a Xylotex 3 axis CNC controller card and just wondered about doing some trials based around CNC Technology ... i would like to point out that in no way did i think it would be easy to come up with a SCN5 type soloution, but like most of us in this DIY game its all about cost LOL:_0 we want the toys but Money is oh sooooo Tight :happy: alway on the look out for ideas regarding Cheaper Actuators so thats why the question was asked (My 2 DOF Flight sim Stopped temporarally becuase i could not make a strong enough DIY Actuator ) Its Part Built and Just waiting for the Next Leap In DIY Actuators so will keep on asking these questions we all benifit in the end Thanks guys... by the way thanks to the info posted by You guys, i now know that M12 x 3 Trapizoidal Thread wont be good enough and ballscrews are the way to go .....Maybe LOL

Dont get me wrong. I will support every serious attempt to make another try.

Just let me tell you the following:

I dont want to brake you, I just want to tell you that I dont have a clue how we would be able to make a SCN5 like DIY actuator for a reasonable price. And on top the SCN5 has a built-in controller even.

While Sirnoname does a briliant X-Sim programming job, and is an expert regarding electronics as well, we have a lack of knowledge regarding the steppers, or maybe motors in general.
Tronicgr makes a brilliant job as well, by developing the AMC motion controllers as well, and even more.
But until now, we have not enough members with specific skills regarding high torque/current steppers or AC-DC motors in general and linear motion technologies. As well in the field of power transmission (gearboxes, gearheads etc.) we'd need some skilled persons as well.
Would be great to see some enthusiastic mechanical engineers here.

One of the main reasons for me to support the X-Sim forum is my personal wish/dream, to make this site to a place where motion simulator enthusiats and experts from every technical area will meet and exchange their ideas with fellow sim builders.

Because the more experts/enthusiats we'll have here, the higher will be the chance to develop an excellent and cheap DIY actuator together, or DIY simulators in general.

@wannabeaflyer
Great, if you have a collection of linerar motion spare parts, you are able to try out things I wouldnt be able to. :

@AD
Well, If you are willing to share some ideas with us, go on, I'll appriciate that :

Regards
Chrisitan

back again i work for an aerospace company and have a few engineers myself included ,so guessing i'll have to tap the brainbank for some idea's and hopefully we can all make the next step ... like they say share the knowledge improve the world ( er or did i just make that up :lol: either way thats how it works in these forums and will be doing my bit to help the crew .... ps i did some visual basic work on my Flight sim platform (Beginner stuff but was able to talk to my Velleman K8055 card and the K5198 Motor controller card ) so could i use Visual Basic to drive a stepper motor actuator similar to the type used for the SimforceGT actuator project or did you guys use C+ ??

If you have stepper motor driver witch use step/dir comands you could be control it by LPT.

I still have idea of using teeth belt in acutator and gass spring (something like 301). It could be fast, relativle cheap and quiet. But i get stuck witch belt use .. (they dont say how mutch force can belt withstand) Then i look for alternatives and we coud use motorbikes chains, they are cheap and can withstand really mutch. You can easlily get sprockeds. But i am not sure if they are silent (on motorbike i dont hear them only screm of my old 2 storke motor ) I believe that even with big wiper motors (one friend have idea use wiper motor from buses they are really powerfull) it could work well (with gass spring balancing cocpit weight)
I cant wait to finish university and get some money to bulid some beast