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ZYT90-155-12V with gearboxes don't know what to do...

Discussion in 'Motor actuators and drivers' started by WowaDriver, Jul 17, 2015.

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  1. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    65mm lever, 25:1 motor's with a rather fine tuned profile.


    Unlisted video, WIP car.

    • Like Like x 3
    Nick Moxley, Jul 19, 2015
    #21
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    There is some degree of personal preference and other design criteria in what may suit you best, as well as external factors such as cost and space.

    If you want the maximum leverage in a seat shaker mode, say primarily for racing simulation, go for a shoulder mount design.

    If you want a fullframe design, say for flight sims and some racing, then consider a foot mount design, as it also has good leverage. A shoulder mount could also work but would have a bigger space footprint.

    The 25:1s would be great for either, the 60:1 would be useful if you need the torque for a hefty design, say moving monitors on a fullframe design, or if there are criteria such as remaining in a level position when unpowered.
    noorbeast, Jul 20, 2015
    #22
  3. bsft

    bsft

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    Hes already said what he is going to build @noorbeast , you are OBVIOUSLY not paying attention or trying to be too politically correct in your answer. I suggest you shut up and let EXPERIENCED people answer this.
    @Nick Moxley shows in his video what seat mover with proper motors and JRKS does! Are you going to put that into a FAQ as well?!?!?!
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    bsft, Jul 20, 2015
    #23
  4. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    some one needs a chill pill........Or a toke and a poke would surely suffice...........:think
    Nick Moxley, Jul 20, 2015
    #24
  5. WowaDriver

    WowaDriver Waldemar Jost

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    Hey guys,

    thanks a lot for the very very helpful answers!! I'm very happy about your cooperativeness!!
    But please don't be unfriendly to each other.

    It is very interesting to see the different opinion! @Nick Moxley thanks a lot for the video! The
    movements are really amazing! So fast and exact! And your sim is a shoulder mover too. So
    i think the best solution will be the 25:1 geared motors.

    On youtube i saw an video of an shoulder mover with 60:1 motors but only in the calibrating process.
    It was less than a half of your movement speed... :( would be happy if someone have a video of 60:1
    motors, when the sim is ingame...

    Tanks for the fast reply's. i'm very happy with this forum. Support is 1+ !!
    • Like Like x 1
    WowaDriver, Jul 20, 2015
    #25
  6. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    Wowa, Yes My Setup is a fast as it gets basically..... Im a lightweight (150lbs) and without using up Excessive amounts of floor space to get even more leverage for the motor's, im upwards of the 4-500mm per sec speeds. 60:1's will be noticeably slower without a proper lever length to compensate. Also you can monitor the oscillation's on the JRK graph on the screen to the right. I know its hard to see but you can still see the peaks and vally's in the data with a little delay as the edge of the Graph is off screen.
    • Like Like x 1
    Nick Moxley, Jul 20, 2015
    #26
  7. Vef445

    Vef445 Active Member

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    I might be a little bit picky, but if you use a 60:1 gearbox you might want to use a longer CTC as you have more torque available. That said, beside the mechanical loss in the gearbox you will probably also loose in precision (longer CTC = smaller angle for the same distance).

    I've just received the 60:1 from UK, and still trying to figure out pros/cons between 25:1 and 60:1. I'd love to have someone experienced with both setups to give us more details :)
    • Like Like x 1
    Vef445, Jul 20, 2015
    #27
  8. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Agreed, as per my initial comments you would not use the same CTC presuming the same frame design.

    Theoretically if you change the CTC you can have similar linear output with 25:1 and 60:1. However the mechanical loss is greater with the 60:1, basically the more theeth the greater the contact friction.

    The only real downside of the 25:1s is that they can not hold any load when un-powered. But by the same token they are easy to set up as you can move them by hand.

    The 60:1 are useful where you need torque and they will hold a person in the sim when un-powered. There are some challenges. Because you can't move them by hand they are a bit harder to set up. Both @Avenga76 and I have recently found that with the brass gear the torque involved in continuously reversing the direction can lead to a spreading of the tooth contact area and hence slop. In my case the compact design exacerbates the torque loading and for @Avenga76 it has been the use of very high speed and powerful motors, which he has just changed. The issue is less likely with shoulder of foot mount designs using more common 3200RPM motors as the leverage lessens the torque spike on reversal.

    I now mix 2 X 25:1s with a 60:1 for heave and have redesign so the heave pivot spring takes most of the user weight. Un-powered the 60:1 still holds the rig loaded with a person sitting in it.
    • Like Like x 2
    noorbeast, Jul 21, 2015
    #28
  9. Vef445

    Vef445 Active Member

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    Thanks for the complementary informations :)
    • Like Like x 1
    Vef445, Jul 21, 2015
    #29
  10. WowaDriver

    WowaDriver Waldemar Jost

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    @Vef445 @Nick Moxley @noorbeast: Thanks for the really helpful statements! Know it is clear to me, would buy the 25:1 one. It would be a fact, that these baby only can be better as my whipers... :D ...
    The only problem is that actually only the canadian will sell 25:1 motors and gears completly ... and he has the best price. But his one looks like a cheap copy of the uk ones... The uk one from motion control products
    are little more expensive and i have to buy the ZYT90-155 motors directly on their homepage and their 25:1 gear on ebay. So both seperatly ... don't know why the can't sell me this in a complete package ..

    What would you guys do, buy the canadian ones or the other from uk MCP?
    WowaDriver, Jul 21, 2015
    #30
  11. Vef445

    Vef445 Active Member

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    I guess it's a matter of price now, unless someone has both solutions in hand to compare them. I'm currently building my first setup so I won't be of a good advise there, but for having these "babies" from UK at home, I'm sure that's gonna perform a lot better than wipers motors :)

    Did you ask Motion Control Products in UK to make two payments (ebay+ their web site) and get everything in one package to reduce delivery cost?
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2015
    Vef445, Jul 21, 2015
    #31
  12. WowaDriver

    WowaDriver Waldemar Jost

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    Yes of course i ask. The would give me a discount for the shipping. It will be around 30 gbp for shipping. Just calculate right now and if i buy by mcp that will be an all in price of 243,60 gbp = 350€
    but when i ask my friend who's in canada right now to bring me the canadian ones, it will be only 267$ = 246€. So i can get them around 100€ cheaper... but the canadian guy need so much time to
    answer me my mail... not normal, for me it is important to buy the canadian only, if he has the ability to send them to my friend till the 10.08.2015 because that will be his last day in canada...
    Actually to find the right solution it's like playing poker :D ...

    And one other question i have... When i installed the wipers it says it is recommended to open the motors and destroy the GND connection the the case, that is normal for automotive use, but not for our simulators. So my question is, these 25:1 motors don't need this right? Because that are normal industrial use motors right?
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2015
    WowaDriver, Jul 21, 2015
    #32
  13. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    PGsaw can have your stuff (IN canada) within a week or 10 days if needed. I cant say ive ever waited longer than a day or so for a message to be answered, but people do get busy so you never know. If you want to know the weights on them, I can go measure up a couple spare's I have around. lmk

    O and Grounding isn't needed for these motor's, That Specifically Wipers you have to worry about.
    • Like Like x 1
    Nick Moxley, Jul 21, 2015
    #33
  14. WowaDriver

    WowaDriver Waldemar Jost

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    @Nick Moxley Thanks for reply. Just get an answer from him right now. Will give me a free shipping in canada and my mate will bring me the babies here. The weight of one is around 3 kg, if he didn't lie on the article description. So i decide to buy 3 motors by PGsaw now! F*ck of if the MCP ones looks like better and like original ones... i think 100€ is a powerful opinion changer :D ....

    And that really cool that we don't have the grin problem with these babies... So i only need to invert the axis for one motor.
    WowaDriver, Jul 21, 2015
    #34
  15. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    You'll also want to flip one of the gears in the Seat motor's to keep thing's mechanically even. Also Pick up some CF film and wrap em, Now that look 10X better than the MCP's. ;)

    [​IMG]
    • Like Like x 5
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    Nick Moxley, Jul 21, 2015
    #35
  16. WowaDriver

    WowaDriver Waldemar Jost

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    Yes you're right, now they look more than amazing!! Tanks for idea sharing!!
    WowaDriver, Jul 21, 2015
    #36
  17. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

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    @Nick Moxley thanks for posting that, I really enjoy watching your rig motion videos. I'd like to ask about that CTC length. It has been suggested to me to use 50mm CTCs on a 25:1 seat mover, I don't doubt its a great choice. What made you go with 65mm and did you use a shorter length previously? Did you find you could not get the speed of the seat to correspond to the speed of the motion in sim until you went with a longer CTC length?
    Sebj, Jul 23, 2015
    #37
  18. WowaDriver

    WowaDriver Waldemar Jost

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    I used before also levers with a length of 50mm with my old wipers... for the one its enough for the other not... I used an angle of 120° for example to get a linear movement around 100mm... as longer the lever is, the motors have to work more, so need more power and torque... for a wiper i the maximum end is found really fast... so if you will use the mcp motors with 25:1 ratio or higher, i think you can use longer levers like Nick around 65mm and a smaller angle... that brings the advantage you have the same linear movement around 100mm but with a smaller linear mistake, because you will use a smaller angle...

    Furthermore like the guys sad here... the motors are able to handle the fast reverse movements with a combination of a pololu jrk's... so i would say it is recommended to use pololus with the motors... Moreover their got a higher resolution
    • Like Like x 1
    WowaDriver, Jul 23, 2015
    #38
  19. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

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    @WowaDriver , I'm not following what you mean by 120 degrees angle. I will be doing a seat mover, looking at 30 degrees back and 15 degrees to the side.
    Sebj, Jul 23, 2015
    #39
  20. WowaDriver

    WowaDriver Waldemar Jost

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    @Sebj you didn't understand me. With 120° i meant the lever angle and its movement... Not the angle which your seat would move forwards and backwards or side by side...
    WowaDriver, Jul 23, 2015
    #40
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