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Motion simulator for Il2 sturmovik flight simulator-swivel chair?

Discussion in 'New users start here - FAQ' started by dgiatr, Oct 22, 2023.

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  1. dgiatr

    dgiatr Member

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    Thank you noorbeast for the welcome!!!

    After a little search i am thinking of going for 2 or 3 dof motion simulator platform with heave for flight simulator. But i dont understand why i cannot see constructions like these [​IMG] ( i got it from here https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/how-to-define-a-rig.17993/ ) since it seems a simpler design where you can easily make heave happen for a flight simulator action. Do you have any link of such a well proven design?Is that so dificcult to prevent lateral twist with it?
    ( not with linear actuator wich are expensive or loudy or difficult to make a diy linear actuator but with simple motors and levers like u joint projects)

    Thank you in advance!
    dgiatr, Oct 22, 2023
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  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Here is a rotary 3DOF project example by @Hale L: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/my-3dof-motion-simulator.14908/

    Another by @momoclic: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...lator-building-tutorial-3dof-heave-axis.9249/

    And another by @Marki: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/marki-3dof-with-winch-sabertooth-2x60.15747/

    An alternative would be a 3DOF servo actuator design, something like @Martti Rand's: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/3dof-motion-simulator-with-linear-actuators.17722/
    noorbeast, Oct 22, 2023
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  3. dgiatr

    dgiatr Member

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    Thank you!! ..time for some reading now..
    dgiatr, Oct 22, 2023
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  4. dgiatr

    dgiatr Member

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    Another question i have which is essential for my project...
    Since i use hp reverb g2 when i fly Il2 Sturmovik...during a dogfight situation i have to turn some degrees my whole body ( except my legs) and my head left or right in order to check my six ( behind my back ) , that why i use a swivel chair.
    So my question is...can i use two push buttons one for turning left and another for turning right on my hottas joystick in order to make my motion platform to turn say about 15-20 degrees (yaw movement) every time i want to check my six( behind my back)?
    In that case platform controller can continue to read my game yaw data and make them real yaw movement?
    I am not talking about shaking chair but moving all my body with rudder pedals too.
    dgiatr, Oct 22, 2023
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  5. dgiatr

    dgiatr Member

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    dgiatr, Oct 22, 2023
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  6. dgiatr

    dgiatr Member

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    I dont want to use a swivel chair again on my platform since that would make the whole project more complex..
    dgiatr, Oct 22, 2023
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  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Rig motion is driven by the aircraft telemetry, hence in VR you do the same as IRL, look over your shoulder to check your 6.
    noorbeast, Oct 22, 2023
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  8. dgiatr

    dgiatr Member

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    Unfortunately in Il2 Sturmovik when in VR mode especially during dogfight situations, you have to turn your head very much left or right in order to watch completely over your back making it practicaly impossible without the aid of a swivel chair which gives you extra degrees of turning for your head.

    So is there any possible way with say simtools or any another application to make my platform turn left or right by some degrees in the yaw axes whenever i press a dedicated left or right "turn" button on my hotas joystick ? or should i make my chair on the platform a swivel chair again? I am just afraid that i will suffer from unwanted movement of my swivel chair every time my platform will have to move from aircraft telemetry...

    What other dogfoght simers do when they fly in Il2 sturmovik with a motion simulator , what they do in DCS?

    ...to make myself more clear in other dogfight simulators like Cliffs of Dover or Tobruk when in Vr mode your real degrees of head movement are multiplied inside vr screen by a factor so when you turn your head IRL by say 3 degrees then the game translates it to say 15 degrees...
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2023
    dgiatr, Oct 23, 2023
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  9. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    I guess you first need to define your primary goal, is it competition or simulated realism.

    You could always look at a button hoked up to a console style camera pivot, but that has nothing to do with motion simulation, simulated realism or real life.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    noorbeast, Oct 23, 2023
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  10. dgiatr

    dgiatr Member

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    I did a start with Simcalc with some rig measurements so i post them in order to get some feedback from you, please tell me if they make any sense for a flight motin rig of a heavy 120 kgr person. Thank you!

    Attached Files:

    dgiatr, Oct 28, 2023
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  11. dgiatr

    dgiatr Member

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    I could convert them in inches if that makes more easy for you...

    Last edited: Oct 28, 2023
    dgiatr, Oct 28, 2023
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  12. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    While a motor angle is possible is that actually intended in your design?

    For a compact rig torque is more important, so I suspect CTC at 60mm gives a bit more, and max range at around 40 degrees, as anything over that effective torque utilization drops off dramatically.
    noorbeast, Oct 29, 2023
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  13. dgiatr

    dgiatr Member

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    I am trying to achieve at least 18-20 degrees of pitch and roll motion or more, dont you think that would be necessary for a flight motion simulator with a vr headset? Can i find two bigger torque motors say at about 60 Nm in the market in order to keep my CTC lenght at 70 mm? Motor angle has been left to 10 degrees by mistake...
    dgiatr, Oct 29, 2023
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  14. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    When it comes to VR and motion simulation, less is more, precision of motion matters way more than large axis movement, even for flight sims.

    The purpose of a motion rig is not to recreate actual axis movements, as that is very complicated and often impracticable, but rather to create the right type of cues to help fool your brain.

    From your SimCalc images I see you plan a compact rig, that being the case the movement motion, at the base, is amplified by the height from the base to your head, which is somewhat different to a shoulder mount design.
    noorbeast, Oct 29, 2023
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  15. dgiatr

    dgiatr Member

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    So you think there are any issues with my configuration and 60 N.m motors?
    I didnt understand if it will work or not.

    I dont have any specific reason for choosing a compact design, if a shoulder design works better then i will go for that one.

    Whats the minimum of pitch and roll torque needed for my case?
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2023
    dgiatr, Oct 29, 2023
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  16. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Can I just clarify, are you planning a 3DOF rig as per your initial posts:
    Or a pivoting rig, which is really what SimCalc presumes and depicts?
    noorbeast, Oct 29, 2023
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  17. dgiatr

    dgiatr Member

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    Yes sorry you are right!

    For now i plan to make a 2 dof pivoting rig with u joint since it seems less complicated than the others. For upgrading to one more axe of freedom in the future ( from 2 to 3 dof ) i am thinking of adding yaw movement and not heave as i wanted in the beginning since Il2 sturmovik telemetry heave data are very poor and it doesnt worth the pain...probably for heave i am thinking of trying your solution or haptic or something like g seat...
    dgiatr, Oct 29, 2023
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  18. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    That being the plan DC motor at 60 N.m should be plenty powerful enough, even up to 70 mm CTC for the levers.

    That said, with VR fast and precise movement matters way more that large axis movements, so keep that in mind when building and configuring you rig.

    Also consider limiting the range to 40 degrees up and down for the levers, as effective torque utilization drops off rapidly over that.
    noorbeast, Oct 29, 2023
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  19. dgiatr

    dgiatr Member

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    Yes i see that my goal is to find 60 N.m motors or even more. Is that the maximum torque, what exactly torque is that?for what torque should i search in motors specifications data?
    Do you have any suggestions where to search for such motors?...i guess 160 rpm in simtool are the final rpm after the gearbox, so what gearbox and what will be the rpm of the motor before the gearbox?What voltage 12 or 24 volt?

    Thank you again for your time!!
    dgiatr, Oct 29, 2023
    #19
  20. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    So many questions, and so many variables!

    12 or 24 volt can both work, it really is a question of how either fit, or are adapted to other peripheral voltage requirements.

    Torque is the force applied perpendicularly to a lever multiplied by its distance from the lever's fulcrum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque

    The torque required is directly related to design and desired performance. A pivoting rig does not need the same torques to drive it as an unsupported rig.

    A good final wormdrive output for a pivoting compact rig is likely to be around 60:1, based on a suitable 180rpm, or similar, motor.
    noorbeast, Oct 29, 2023
    #20
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